1
00:00:10,100 --> 00:00:02,629
you're locked into inception radio

2
00:00:13,549 --> 00:00:10,110
network superior Wisconsin your tune in

3
00:00:17,540 --> 00:00:13,559
tonight vision radio exposing the truth

4
00:00:19,910 --> 00:00:17,550
one secret at a time prepare yourself as

5
00:00:22,570 --> 00:00:19,920
we explore the shadow worlds of

6
00:00:25,939 --> 00:00:22,580
suppressed history secret knowledge

7
00:00:48,260 --> 00:00:25,949
forbidden religion and shine a light on

8
00:00:48,270 --> 00:01:09,820
what

9
00:01:09,830 --> 00:01:15,690
welcome to night vision radio

10
00:01:22,060 --> 00:01:19,359
happy new year everybody so glad you

11
00:01:24,670 --> 00:01:22,070
could join us tonight I hope everybody's

12
00:01:27,460 --> 00:01:24,680
not too hungover today from partying

13
00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:27,470
last night for New Year's Eve I cannot

14
00:01:35,710 --> 00:01:31,450
believe that it's 2015 it just really

15
00:01:37,990 --> 00:01:35,720
blows my mind at 2014 I'm still getting

16
00:01:39,460 --> 00:01:38,000
used to writing that on why don't even

17
00:01:42,279 --> 00:01:39,470
write checks who writes checks anymore

18
00:01:45,310 --> 00:01:42,289
but on anything I'm really it's still

19
00:01:48,340 --> 00:01:45,320
trying to get used to 2014 I guess

20
00:01:49,899 --> 00:01:48,350
that's gone by the wayside now and we're

21
00:01:51,910 --> 00:01:49,909
in a brand new year I hear it's going to

22
00:01:54,340 --> 00:01:51,920
be a good one from all the predictors so

23
00:01:57,669 --> 00:01:54,350
I'm hoping that that's true for all of

24
00:02:00,070 --> 00:01:57,679
us anyhow tonight we've got a great show

25
00:02:03,190 --> 00:02:00,080
planned you know our last show that we

26
00:02:05,350 --> 00:02:03,200
were live because last last Thursday

27
00:02:08,229 --> 00:02:05,360
night was Christmas so we were not live

28
00:02:10,809 --> 00:02:08,239
but the previous Thursday night we had

29
00:02:14,289 --> 00:02:10,819
on dawn ecker former research director

30
00:02:17,979 --> 00:02:14,299
of UFO magazine host of UFOs tonight and

31
00:02:21,640 --> 00:02:17,989
Dark Matters radio on we talked about

32
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:21,650
some of the historical UFO cases some of

33
00:02:28,870 --> 00:02:24,250
our experiences at UFO magazine and

34
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:28,880
tonight I have don's better half the

35
00:02:34,750 --> 00:02:32,090
first lady of UFOs the founder or

36
00:02:37,479 --> 00:02:34,760
co-founder I should say of UFO magazine

37
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:37,489
way back in nineteen eighty six ms

38
00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:40,250
vickicooper occur Vicki thanks so much

39
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:42,170
for joining us on your New Year's Day

40
00:02:47,890 --> 00:02:44,690
very much appreciate it and I wish

41
00:02:50,530 --> 00:02:47,900
everyone a very happy new year hopefully

42
00:02:52,330 --> 00:02:50,540
10x15 is going to be just a tad better

43
00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:52,340
if not a whole lot better for less Oh

44
00:02:56,979 --> 00:02:54,530
aye sir I sure hope so i'm getting a

45
00:03:02,410 --> 00:02:56,989
late start i just put my black-eyed peas

46
00:03:04,690 --> 00:03:02,420
on about an hour so ago so I got angry

47
00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:04,700
about that before midnight tonight so I

48
00:03:10,780 --> 00:03:08,690
can have good good luck in all 13 15 but

49
00:03:14,110 --> 00:03:10,790
I know dawn was telling me how you guys

50
00:03:18,099 --> 00:03:14,120
had a traditional Pennsylvania New Year

51
00:03:22,300 --> 00:03:18,109
meal and gross Park it was delicious oh

52
00:03:24,340 --> 00:03:22,310
yeah and so now i'm getting my ham and

53
00:03:25,780 --> 00:03:24,350
black-eyed peas thing together and going

54
00:03:27,070 --> 00:03:25,790
to make some cornbread and have a little

55
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:27,080
bit before midnight tonight

56
00:03:32,260 --> 00:03:29,210
so you'll have to come by get some Vicky

57
00:03:35,500 --> 00:03:32,270
and you I will you've asked me to I plan

58
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:35,510
on it oh absolutely now definitely let's

59
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:37,970
let's just start at the beginning here a

60
00:03:45,100 --> 00:03:42,290
little bit you uh were a journalism

61
00:03:47,470 --> 00:03:45,110
graduate of UCLA is that road own not

62
00:03:50,380 --> 00:03:47,480
UCLA is slightly more prestigious and

63
00:03:51,970 --> 00:03:50,390
cal state unless i'll say i do believe

64
00:03:54,820 --> 00:03:51,980
at that time I don't know about

65
00:03:57,610 --> 00:03:54,830
journalism grant you know majors these

66
00:04:00,100 --> 00:03:57,620
days but we we've given the the absolute

67
00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:00,110
standards of journalism which I've tried

68
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:03,290
to abide by in my career shortest nandi

69
00:04:09,190 --> 00:04:07,250
have been so that's always been what I

70
00:04:11,890 --> 00:04:09,200
really admired about you in what I

71
00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:11,900
admired about the magazine you know when

72
00:04:18,130 --> 00:04:14,330
I first picked it up it was you know

73
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:18,140
what by anybody's standards a very smart

74
00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:21,250
read it was a very journalistic approach

75
00:04:27,190 --> 00:04:24,290
to what was considered a very very

76
00:04:30,460 --> 00:04:27,200
fringe subject and I really appreciated

77
00:04:32,620 --> 00:04:30,470
that because you it allowed you to or

78
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:32,630
allowed the reader to sort of be able to

79
00:04:36,909 --> 00:04:34,130
depend on the information that they were

80
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:36,919
getting and to make sure that they were

81
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:40,010
getting a balanced view exactly and

82
00:04:44,620 --> 00:04:42,530
that's exactly how I was taught as a

83
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:44,630
journalism major and tried to apply that

84
00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:48,050
to a field it really wasn't ready myself

85
00:04:52,210 --> 00:04:50,330
first and I still think it's not quite

86
00:04:54,670 --> 00:04:52,220
ready for that and nor are more

87
00:04:57,670 --> 00:04:54,680
journalists ready to confront what

88
00:05:01,090 --> 00:04:57,680
sherry and I sherry start my co-founder

89
00:05:04,420 --> 00:05:01,100
had to deal with in the earlier years it

90
00:05:06,340 --> 00:05:04,430
is a fringy subject probably always will

91
00:05:10,180 --> 00:05:06,350
be unless there is some kind of

92
00:05:13,469 --> 00:05:10,190
disclosure of what the government knows

93
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:13,479
if not the entire information about UFOs

94
00:05:20,740 --> 00:05:17,090
and it's it was a challenge and it don

95
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:20,750
my husband god bless and he has he has

96
00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:22,970
to keep reminding me that we did

97
00:05:30,850 --> 00:05:25,510
something that nobody else has ever done

98
00:05:34,930 --> 00:05:30,860
we actually published pretty much

99
00:05:37,330 --> 00:05:34,940
continually a legitimate UFO magazine

100
00:05:39,790 --> 00:05:37,340
which had never been done before now

101
00:05:40,930 --> 00:05:39,800
maybe it'll happen again but at this

102
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:40,940
point

103
00:05:44,530 --> 00:05:42,410
it's hard to tell it doesn't look like

104
00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:44,540
the field has changed that much still a

105
00:05:50,170 --> 00:05:48,170
lot of crap and which is exactly what

106
00:05:53,250 --> 00:05:50,180
drove me out of it to tell you the truth

107
00:05:57,610 --> 00:05:53,260
it's just so filled with disinformation

108
00:05:59,770 --> 00:05:57,620
with pettiness with you know people

109
00:06:02,830 --> 00:05:59,780
getting diverted off the phenomenon and

110
00:06:06,420 --> 00:06:02,840
into little fights about you know

111
00:06:08,890 --> 00:06:06,430
tangential subjects it was frustrating

112
00:06:12,310 --> 00:06:08,900
it's too but you know don't you think

113
00:06:15,850 --> 00:06:12,320
that's true of a lot of different groups

114
00:06:17,590 --> 00:06:15,860
yeah you're absolutely right it is it is

115
00:06:19,870 --> 00:06:17,600
in fact if I'd gotten into any other

116
00:06:21,820 --> 00:06:19,880
subject to try to cover as a journalist

117
00:06:24,370 --> 00:06:21,830
I probably would have run into the same

118
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:24,380
kinds of elements it's just with UFO

119
00:06:29,890 --> 00:06:26,690
thing because there's no standards

120
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:29,900
because there are no academic agreements

121
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:31,970
shall we say or scientific agreements

122
00:06:38,940 --> 00:06:34,610
the fighting goes on forever and there's

123
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:38,950
never any solid answer or any solid

124
00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:41,810
resource that you can depend on which is

125
00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:43,610
what we were trying to do is to just

126
00:06:48,460 --> 00:06:46,310
present what we knew and what the people

127
00:06:50,530 --> 00:06:48,470
that were the better researchers in the

128
00:06:54,250 --> 00:06:50,540
field had discovered and just presented

129
00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:54,260
in a very unemotional nonpartisan kind

130
00:06:58,180 --> 00:06:56,330
of way and that might have been the

131
00:07:01,360 --> 00:06:58,190
reason by the way since we didn't take

132
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:01,370
an attitude that the magazine never had

133
00:07:06,070 --> 00:07:03,410
an opportunity to really get financially

134
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:06,080
successful but that's but that's that's

135
00:07:10,540 --> 00:07:08,810
the way it was whatever you know I kind

136
00:07:13,570 --> 00:07:10,550
of a kind of hear what you're saying on

137
00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:13,580
that sometimes people want the shocking

138
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:16,730
stuff they want to turn controversy they

139
00:07:21,340 --> 00:07:19,250
want you know that kind of a thing they

140
00:07:24,490 --> 00:07:21,350
were you know and i found that you don't

141
00:07:27,100 --> 00:07:24,500
like you like you're saying a lot of the

142
00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:27,110
researchers you know we're just average

143
00:07:33,190 --> 00:07:30,770
joe's like everybody else and they were

144
00:07:35,110 --> 00:07:33,200
you know finding stuff on their own and

145
00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:35,120
i would find a lot of times i don't know

146
00:07:41,530 --> 00:07:38,570
if you agree with this but when

147
00:07:44,260 --> 00:07:41,540
sometimes the first kernel of what they

148
00:07:46,510 --> 00:07:44,270
had or what they found was fairly pure

149
00:07:48,580 --> 00:07:46,520
but once they're started getting

150
00:07:51,100 --> 00:07:48,590
attention on it and people started sort

151
00:07:53,770 --> 00:07:51,110
of grabbing on to it it's like they

152
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:53,780
wanted to keep it going so it was a lot

153
00:07:59,860 --> 00:07:54,770
of embellish

154
00:08:02,499 --> 00:07:59,870
a lot of misinformation you know just to

155
00:08:05,649 --> 00:08:02,509
keep the story going very human

156
00:08:08,770 --> 00:08:05,659
reactions you almost can't blame some of

157
00:08:11,140 --> 00:08:08,780
them many people if not most people are

158
00:08:13,990 --> 00:08:11,150
naive to begin with and they get into

159
00:08:16,779 --> 00:08:14,000
this subject with so fraught with with

160
00:08:19,180 --> 00:08:16,789
mystery and confusion they find

161
00:08:21,279 --> 00:08:19,190
something that is a kernel of truth it's

162
00:08:24,339 --> 00:08:21,289
natural and if I get attention for that

163
00:08:26,589 --> 00:08:24,349
its natural totally natural for most of

164
00:08:29,290 --> 00:08:26,599
us to take it and run with it you know

165
00:08:31,420 --> 00:08:29,300
and so you know I can't fault people now

166
00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:31,430
that I look at it in hindsight hindsight

167
00:08:35,829 --> 00:08:32,930
being twenty-twenty vision of course

168
00:08:37,750 --> 00:08:35,839
certain time it was like sometimes I

169
00:08:40,060 --> 00:08:37,760
didn't know how to deal with a certain

170
00:08:43,659 --> 00:08:40,070
case or a certain person I was

171
00:08:46,389 --> 00:08:43,669
interviewing it was it was dawn did

172
00:08:49,300 --> 00:08:46,399
better with it he was able to he had

173
00:08:51,550 --> 00:08:49,310
more patience with some of these people

174
00:08:54,970 --> 00:08:51,560
that would go off on tangents that were

175
00:08:57,970 --> 00:08:54,980
in my view okay just totally my personal

176
00:09:00,550 --> 00:08:57,980
opinion weren't quite sane okay we're

177
00:09:02,860 --> 00:09:00,560
quite say well they weren't like there

178
00:09:05,019 --> 00:09:02,870
were one inch a lot of you know shy of a

179
00:09:07,630 --> 00:09:05,029
total combination plate as they say and

180
00:09:10,300 --> 00:09:07,640
I just had very little patience with

181
00:09:12,819 --> 00:09:10,310
that people like that would call in to

182
00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:12,829
the magazine and I would unfortunately

183
00:09:20,019 --> 00:09:14,690
have gone to pass it on to cuz you never

184
00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:20,029
know or me so are you all right course I

185
00:09:25,030 --> 00:09:22,250
by the way this girl here was my

186
00:09:27,370 --> 00:09:25,040
managing editor and at and like my

187
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:27,380
husband Don was one of the people that

188
00:09:32,710 --> 00:09:29,450
kept me going when I was way beyond

189
00:09:34,569 --> 00:09:32,720
being able to go on by the stuff thank

190
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:34,579
you for that by the way everything used

191
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:38,890
to to mail out each and every magazine

192
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:43,490
yeah and you really know what you're

193
00:09:48,910 --> 00:09:46,250
living without full of magazines and

194
00:09:53,199 --> 00:09:48,920
envelopes and mailing labels and oh my

195
00:09:55,540 --> 00:09:53,209
god it was insane it is right hand I'd

196
00:09:57,190 --> 00:09:55,550
have them off myself to the UPS and

197
00:10:01,960 --> 00:09:57,200
that's why I still don't have two floppy

198
00:10:04,540 --> 00:10:01,970
upper arms I would pick up those boxes

199
00:10:06,420 --> 00:10:04,550
I'd have them and I was so proud of

200
00:10:10,170 --> 00:10:06,430
being able to do that

201
00:10:12,510 --> 00:10:10,180
on middle here now but thank God you

202
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:12,520
finally did hire a fulfillment house and

203
00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:14,290
we didn't have to get oh yeah we did

204
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:16,930
share I help with that too you know see

205
00:10:21,060 --> 00:10:18,970
carriage it sure did a lot of things

206
00:10:23,070 --> 00:10:21,070
that really kept the thing going on the

207
00:10:26,660 --> 00:10:23,080
earlier years and then we had we

208
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:26,670
gravitated into associations with other

209
00:10:32,460 --> 00:10:28,810
people shall we say I guess they are

210
00:10:34,949 --> 00:10:32,470
people actually which took us in in into

211
00:10:36,930 --> 00:10:34,959
some other mystery films beside the UFO

212
00:10:40,260 --> 00:10:36,940
thing but it all went where it went

213
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:40,270
according to what life it could have and

214
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:42,490
I look back on it knowing that it was

215
00:10:47,340 --> 00:10:45,370
something that sustained a lot of people

216
00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:47,350
who are interested in the subject and to

217
00:10:54,090 --> 00:10:49,330
me that was that's really what I wanted

218
00:10:56,639 --> 00:10:54,100
to do oh absolutely well I I miss

219
00:10:59,090 --> 00:10:56,649
working on it it was a lot of fun and I

220
00:11:02,160 --> 00:10:59,100
can remember a lot of deadlines

221
00:11:03,930 --> 00:11:02,170
deadlines filthy you know writing stuff

222
00:11:06,780 --> 00:11:03,940
at midnight or editing something at

223
00:11:11,870 --> 00:11:06,790
midnight but it was fun it was really

224
00:11:15,449 --> 00:11:11,880
good now did you have a favorite time

225
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:15,459
was their favorite era of the magazine

226
00:11:20,190 --> 00:11:18,370
and if you did what was going on during

227
00:11:22,110 --> 00:11:20,200
that time in the food you're going to

228
00:11:23,970 --> 00:11:22,120
find this very interesting Renee it's an

229
00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:23,980
interesting question says what you're

230
00:11:31,230 --> 00:11:26,529
asking me about is when the idea first

231
00:11:33,750 --> 00:11:31,240
came to me and the state of mind I was

232
00:11:36,540 --> 00:11:33,760
in when I first went to sherry and

233
00:11:40,110 --> 00:11:36,550
presented the idea to her and that was

234
00:11:41,940 --> 00:11:40,120
subsequent to what I call kind of a

235
00:11:45,810 --> 00:11:41,950
transformative experience that I had

236
00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:45,820
after an accident in which I had a great

237
00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:50,800
deal of a spiritual uplift and at the

238
00:11:55,260 --> 00:11:52,690
same time and this I could never figure

239
00:11:58,199 --> 00:11:55,270
it out I still haven't quite figured it

240
00:12:00,390 --> 00:11:58,209
out I felt what i thought was some kind

241
00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:00,400
of connection to extraterrestrial

242
00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:03,250
intelligence now I'm not want to talk

243
00:12:07,199 --> 00:12:05,440
like one of those people that is a

244
00:12:09,810 --> 00:12:07,209
Chandler or anything like that it wasn't

245
00:12:13,730 --> 00:12:09,820
like that it was just like a rapport

246
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:13,740
with the idea of living systems or

247
00:12:19,980 --> 00:12:17,050
organisms outside of planet Earth and

248
00:12:23,150 --> 00:12:19,990
like let's face it

249
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:23,160
it's a given okay this universe again

250
00:12:29,310 --> 00:12:26,170
given you know and but for some you know

251
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:29,320
it's never been a subject that people

252
00:12:33,780 --> 00:12:31,839
openly accept and just realizes an

253
00:12:37,530 --> 00:12:33,790
inevitability for whatever reasons but I

254
00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:37,540
did and I at that time wanted to take my

255
00:12:42,030 --> 00:12:40,240
skills as an editor and writer and apply

256
00:12:45,269 --> 00:12:42,040
them to something that was it inspired

257
00:12:47,579 --> 00:12:45,279
me and that to me when the birth of the

258
00:12:50,070 --> 00:12:47,589
magazine first happened was the most

259
00:12:53,519 --> 00:12:50,080
exciting time sherry and I were in

260
00:12:55,110 --> 00:12:53,529
rapport about so many things and we

261
00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:55,120
really thought what was interesting is

262
00:13:01,920 --> 00:12:57,850
we saw the subject from a vantage point

263
00:13:06,630 --> 00:13:01,930
of upliftment for mankind okay an

264
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:06,640
optimistic of lifting futuristic happy

265
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:08,290
kind I don't want to say happy but but

266
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:12,250
this positive kind of subject then we

267
00:13:19,170 --> 00:13:15,610
discovered the UFO field which even a

268
00:13:24,510 --> 00:13:19,180
nut okay so there was a conflict in me

269
00:13:26,910 --> 00:13:24,520
between my desire to open up the public

270
00:13:29,610 --> 00:13:26,920
the earthly public to this wonderful

271
00:13:32,699 --> 00:13:29,620
idea that there our intelligence is

272
00:13:34,590 --> 00:13:32,709
outside of our planet that was in

273
00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:34,600
conflict with the actual people who are

274
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:36,910
doing the research and doing their

275
00:13:41,460 --> 00:13:38,730
little things and being in their little

276
00:13:44,930 --> 00:13:41,470
mud holes of fighting stuff it just

277
00:13:48,060 --> 00:13:44,940
didn't it didn't didn't mix really but

278
00:13:50,639 --> 00:13:48,070
we kept going and kept trying to mix it

279
00:13:53,579 --> 00:13:50,649
but the whole spiritual part the part of

280
00:13:56,460 --> 00:13:53,589
it made me feel uplifted and positive

281
00:13:58,560 --> 00:13:56,470
about the idea that we have other beings

282
00:14:01,019 --> 00:13:58,570
we can know about that kind of went away

283
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:01,029
as I kept trying to cover the field so

284
00:14:06,900 --> 00:14:03,370
you see there was a better words it

285
00:14:08,910 --> 00:14:06,910
started high and it dipped a little then

286
00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:08,920
it got a little higher when it looked

287
00:14:13,079 --> 00:14:10,690
like the business is going well and and

288
00:14:15,090 --> 00:14:13,089
there were more positive elements in the

289
00:14:19,530 --> 00:14:15,100
field and then it went down and get for

290
00:14:21,569 --> 00:14:19,540
me it's like mom and dirty yeah galaxy

291
00:14:25,380 --> 00:14:21,579
down and dirty something I don't handle

292
00:14:27,060 --> 00:14:25,390
her so all god I'm telling you again I

293
00:14:30,630 --> 00:14:27,070
have to say it was it from people like

294
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:30,640
you and for Dawn I just I I might have

295
00:14:35,650 --> 00:14:33,290
been able to go on longer maybe if I had

296
00:14:39,009 --> 00:14:35,660
a little bit more camara t in my soul

297
00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:39,019
what's interesting is or at least it

298
00:14:47,889 --> 00:14:44,320
seems to me and is that your original

299
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:47,899
sort of raised on debt or your original

300
00:14:53,980 --> 00:14:50,720
idea for wow you wanted to cover the

301
00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:53,990
subject matter in a positive way it

302
00:15:02,680 --> 00:14:59,360
seems like now would be more of a time

303
00:15:05,139 --> 00:15:02,690
for that kind of coverage so really i

304
00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:05,149
think so i think people are more into

305
00:15:09,759 --> 00:15:08,240
those ideas in handling like just

306
00:15:11,769 --> 00:15:09,769
looking you know what the chatroom

307
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:11,779
people we're talking about UFOs in

308
00:15:18,249 --> 00:15:13,600
christ consciousness and spirituality

309
00:15:21,389 --> 00:15:18,259
yes i think so i think that people have

310
00:15:24,699 --> 00:15:21,399
gotten more into that type of thinking I

311
00:15:28,420 --> 00:15:24,709
you know could be completely wrong but I

312
00:15:30,340 --> 00:15:28,430
think a lot of people have sort of i

313
00:15:33,370 --> 00:15:30,350
mean i was listening to something on NPR

314
00:15:35,559 --> 00:15:33,380
today or maybe yesterday about religion

315
00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:35,569
and how people have sort of gotten more

316
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:38,560
away from the sort of organized religion

317
00:15:43,930 --> 00:15:42,560
saying and more into spirituality they

318
00:15:46,829 --> 00:15:43,940
can they don't consider themselves

319
00:15:49,809 --> 00:15:46,839
religious but they consider them spare

320
00:15:52,449 --> 00:15:49,819
themselves spiritual when when firing

321
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:52,459
are valid in my mind is far more talent

322
00:15:58,930 --> 00:15:55,610
in terms of connecting industry to and i

323
00:16:01,930 --> 00:15:58,940
also i think that opens people up to be

324
00:16:05,170 --> 00:16:01,940
able to without those dogmas and laws

325
00:16:06,850 --> 00:16:05,180
and rules then release your petitions if

326
00:16:10,290 --> 00:16:06,860
you ask me there's a lot of superstition

327
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:10,300
and religion yeah absolutely so what

328
00:16:16,210 --> 00:16:13,730
what you know what without that i think

329
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:16,220
people are able to sort of entertain

330
00:16:21,340 --> 00:16:19,250
bigger and better things maybe you know

331
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:21,350
like that that was the phenomenon oh

332
00:16:26,259 --> 00:16:24,050
yeah when you have a whole there is an

333
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:26,269
old whole institution though it's not

334
00:16:32,829 --> 00:16:28,850
accredited or even considered you know

335
00:16:34,900 --> 00:16:32,839
legitimate per se of people following

336
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:34,910
the subject is it sometimes it's just

337
00:16:39,819 --> 00:16:37,490
difficult to bring in the spiritual

338
00:16:44,079 --> 00:16:39,829
aspect of it and also cover the field

339
00:16:46,269 --> 00:16:44,089
you know yeah but still it's it's we're

340
00:16:46,930 --> 00:16:46,279
all progressing everything is

341
00:16:50,980 --> 00:16:46,940
progressing

342
00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:50,990
viewpoint on how we can bridge these

343
00:16:58,330 --> 00:16:54,110
things will inevitably come to some kind

344
00:17:00,940 --> 00:16:58,340
of fruition and degrade maybe so from

345
00:17:02,740 --> 00:17:00,950
the chat room bill says does Vicki think

346
00:17:04,990 --> 00:17:02,750
that Hollywood with all these negative

347
00:17:09,670 --> 00:17:05,000
alien movies is helping prevent

348
00:17:13,860 --> 00:17:09,680
disclosure by using fear well hey fair

349
00:17:15,910 --> 00:17:13,870
really self what can I say okay maybe

350
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:15,920
unintentionally I think that you know

351
00:17:22,660 --> 00:17:19,490
cuz I mean honestly I I of course I

352
00:17:24,699 --> 00:17:22,670
don't move in those kind of of

353
00:17:26,350 --> 00:17:24,709
stratosphere you know among the

354
00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:26,360
Hollywood elite but I do work in

355
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:28,310
Hollywood and I have that you know

356
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:30,290
worked you know in television for a long

357
00:17:37,330 --> 00:17:32,690
time and then you know worked in movies

358
00:17:40,180 --> 00:17:37,340
a little bit I don't and also worked at

359
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:40,190
the magazine for four years so I never

360
00:17:47,410 --> 00:17:43,730
felt any pressure from any government

361
00:17:49,630 --> 00:17:47,420
body or any to you know move information

362
00:17:51,370 --> 00:17:49,640
one way or the other and i know and i

363
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:51,380
know people accuse our magazine event

364
00:17:56,170 --> 00:17:53,570
but it never really happened on the

365
00:17:58,120 --> 00:17:56,180
conscious level i can tell you that then

366
00:18:00,610 --> 00:17:58,130
again the UFO phenomenon i think is

367
00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:00,620
pretty much there is a psychological

368
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:03,710
warfare element in there or manipulation

369
00:18:10,030 --> 00:18:06,650
if not warfare maybe war first a little

370
00:18:14,740 --> 00:18:10,040
too extreme and i felt a little of that

371
00:18:16,830 --> 00:18:14,750
in my years with the magazine but it is

372
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:16,840
so ephemeral there's no way to really

373
00:18:23,950 --> 00:18:20,690
prove anything you know it's like it was

374
00:18:27,790 --> 00:18:23,960
a feeling or an intuition and might have

375
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:27,800
been part of why I backed off yeah it

376
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:29,930
seems like there was a time you know

377
00:18:37,930 --> 00:18:34,970
back in a mid 80s i believe it was 1986

378
00:18:41,550 --> 00:18:37,940
when i first saw you in las vegas at

379
00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:41,560
that new fon conference and i remember

380
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:45,310
there was a lot going on a lot there was

381
00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:48,320
people were up in arms you know at that

382
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:51,310
conference there was all kinds of of

383
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:54,290
controversy there was a talk of you know

384
00:18:59,690 --> 00:18:57,410
disinformation there was the you know

385
00:19:02,750 --> 00:18:59,700
the benefits case and

386
00:19:05,659 --> 00:19:02,760
right other cases in i believe it was

387
00:19:10,340 --> 00:19:05,669
Bill Moore that was on stage who

388
00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:10,350
admittedly participated in dis informing

389
00:19:18,169 --> 00:19:15,809
Paul bennewitz if not others and into

390
00:19:20,149 --> 00:19:18,179
helping him believe I guess that he was

391
00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:20,159
having some experiences that maybe he

392
00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:22,559
wasn't manager I remember him calling it

393
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:24,590
getting into the center of the Beehive

394
00:19:32,919 --> 00:19:27,570
which what what he meant by that as a

395
00:19:35,930 --> 00:19:32,929
researcher and quasi spy he was able to

396
00:19:38,750 --> 00:19:35,940
infiltrate up to a point some of the

397
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:38,760
government mix ups and disinformation

398
00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:42,210
that was being plowed into the field and

399
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:46,130
which eventually nearly destroyed

400
00:19:54,470 --> 00:19:50,000
bennewitz and I guess fed into his

401
00:19:57,019 --> 00:19:54,480
psychological breakdown and to know I

402
00:19:59,990 --> 00:19:57,029
remember being there to know that that

403
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:00,000
man that was quote-unquote a fairly

404
00:20:07,899 --> 00:20:03,690
respected researcher Bill Moore at the

405
00:20:11,029 --> 00:20:07,909
time had participated in operations uh

406
00:20:13,389 --> 00:20:11,039
toward and against bennewitz in order to

407
00:20:17,629 --> 00:20:13,399
get to the center of the Beehive totally

408
00:20:21,289 --> 00:20:17,639
freaked me out totally devastated me I

409
00:20:26,389 --> 00:20:21,299
was appalled I want that I know I saw

410
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:26,399
her first this is the first time I ever

411
00:20:32,389 --> 00:20:29,610
I ever saw you and I remember Bill Moore

412
00:20:36,019 --> 00:20:32,399
was on stage and I heard someone yell

413
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:36,029
out what about the Constitution and I

414
00:20:40,039 --> 00:20:38,490
said who's that and they said oh that's

415
00:20:41,659 --> 00:20:40,049
vickicooper she's the editor of

416
00:20:46,039 --> 00:20:41,669
beautiful magazine and I was going on oh

417
00:20:48,889 --> 00:20:46,049
wow and it was very heated in that room

418
00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:48,899
I remember but um the Paul bennewitz

419
00:20:52,490 --> 00:20:50,760
case can you talk just a little bit

420
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:52,500
about what that is for those who might

421
00:20:56,330 --> 00:20:54,210
not be familiar with it that would be

422
00:20:59,779 --> 00:20:56,340
listening well I from what i remember

423
00:21:02,350 --> 00:20:59,789
and please forgive me my memories not up

424
00:21:06,409 --> 00:21:02,360
to par as it was when I would say 20

425
00:21:09,980 --> 00:21:06,419
bennewitz was a scientist who basically

426
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:09,990
had had worked on some covert projects

427
00:21:19,310 --> 00:21:13,530
visa vie I the air

428
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:19,320
force and covert projects and had what

429
00:21:30,020 --> 00:21:23,510
was allegedly his own research into a

430
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:30,030
alien alien UFO event and Bill Moore and

431
00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:34,530
others uh basically felt that he was

432
00:21:39,230 --> 00:21:36,720
compromising national security at some

433
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:39,240
point okay from what I gather now now if

434
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:40,770
you had dawn here instead of me I'm

435
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:42,690
certain he's have all the details but to

436
00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:46,290
make a long story short when the AF OSI

437
00:21:50,660 --> 00:21:47,520
the Air Force Office of Special

438
00:21:52,460 --> 00:21:50,670
Investigations decided he was

439
00:21:55,550 --> 00:21:52,470
compromising national security they

440
00:21:59,440 --> 00:21:55,560
decided to go after him and to dissuade

441
00:22:03,890 --> 00:21:59,450
him from telling stories about some

442
00:22:06,590 --> 00:22:03,900
humans humans being attacked and eaten

443
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:06,600
by aliens which I think was part of when

444
00:22:11,330 --> 00:22:08,730
his mental breakdown might have happened

445
00:22:15,310 --> 00:22:11,340
whatever went on and whatever he was

446
00:22:19,910 --> 00:22:15,320
doing to make the long story short more

447
00:22:23,660 --> 00:22:19,920
hooked up with the AFO SI and proceeded

448
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:23,670
to do projects operations on this man

449
00:22:28,550 --> 00:22:26,130
now was he a private citizen at that

450
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:28,560
time more I believe he was I believe you

451
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:32,250
I think he was if I had a you know my

452
00:22:37,820 --> 00:22:34,290
research notes which I don't I think he

453
00:22:42,670 --> 00:22:37,830
was a contract employee and I don't know

454
00:22:46,910 --> 00:22:42,680
exactly what his mission was with his

455
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:46,920
operations as a contract employee were

456
00:22:52,730 --> 00:22:48,570
at the time but they were for high-tech

457
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:52,740
and for covert operations and for rd and

458
00:23:00,020 --> 00:22:54,960
just the fact that he was dealing in

459
00:23:02,540 --> 00:23:00,030
those levels made him dicey as somebody

460
00:23:06,620 --> 00:23:02,550
who would be talking too much to to to

461
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:06,630
the wrong people and bottom line he was

462
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:09,360
considered somebody in the UFO field who

463
00:23:17,980 --> 00:23:15,810
was intentionally targeted by operatives

464
00:23:22,330 --> 00:23:17,990
of the Air Force Office of Special

465
00:23:25,550 --> 00:23:22,340
Investigation and ultimately was driven

466
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:25,560
cycle a bit or saying because of it and

467
00:23:30,169 --> 00:23:27,450
this of course was an

468
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:30,179
rage once bill maher came out and said

469
00:23:35,690 --> 00:23:33,120
he was a part of it the UFO community is

470
00:23:38,649 --> 00:23:35,700
insular and small as it was was pretty

471
00:23:41,210 --> 00:23:38,659
upset to know that he was dealing with

472
00:23:46,570 --> 00:23:41,220
who many people considered at the time

473
00:23:49,430 --> 00:23:46,580
the enemy because the enemy was the

474
00:23:52,190 --> 00:23:49,440
various intelligence agencies were who

475
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:52,200
were attempting to keep a lid on the

476
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:53,760
phenomenon the fact that the phenomenon

477
00:23:59,720 --> 00:23:56,490
is real not necessarily that the

478
00:24:01,610 --> 00:23:59,730
phenomenon was alien or et but that it

479
00:24:03,860 --> 00:24:01,620
was real that people were seeing things

480
00:24:09,289 --> 00:24:03,870
and their denial particularly around the

481
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:09,299
CIA and those those agencies was simply

482
00:24:15,529 --> 00:24:12,450
a deflation for everybody to get them

483
00:24:17,590 --> 00:24:15,539
off to get them to feel safer with with

484
00:24:21,049 --> 00:24:17,600
the security of their operations and

485
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:21,059
yeah that's another thing I started out

486
00:24:26,919 --> 00:24:23,760
thinking these UFOs many of them are

487
00:24:28,970 --> 00:24:26,929
most of amour ET or from alien

488
00:24:32,060 --> 00:24:28,980
intelligences or other dimensional

489
00:24:34,129 --> 00:24:32,070
intelligences whereas as time went on it

490
00:24:37,730 --> 00:24:34,139
was easy to discover that much of the

491
00:24:40,009 --> 00:24:37,740
stuff was infiltrated by Air Force CIA

492
00:24:43,539 --> 00:24:40,019
intelligence agency operations that had

493
00:24:46,279 --> 00:24:43,549
to do with research and development and

494
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:46,289
you know that you know things like I

495
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:48,510
think you were speaking earlier Renee of

496
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:52,490
teleportation Gordon Cooper having oh

497
00:24:57,289 --> 00:24:55,440
yeah Ali not Gordon Cooper I remember

498
00:25:00,019 --> 00:24:57,299
you interviewed him for the magazine

499
00:25:04,730 --> 00:25:00,029
right this way yeah this was like

500
00:25:06,740 --> 00:25:04,740
probably early 90s right it was a short

501
00:25:10,399 --> 00:25:06,750
time before he passed away yeah few

502
00:25:14,509 --> 00:25:10,409
years I guess mm-hmm and he touched that

503
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:14,519
time did claim to have what he was open

504
00:25:21,549 --> 00:25:18,690
about having a medic or accepting the

505
00:25:24,590 --> 00:25:21,559
reality of UFOs and having seen some

506
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:24,600
certain individual experiences that he

507
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:27,210
had along with some other pros in the

508
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:30,000
Aeronautics field but he also talked

509
00:25:35,419 --> 00:25:32,159
about teleportation these things if they

510
00:25:37,850 --> 00:25:35,429
were going on and they had to do rd

511
00:25:40,649 --> 00:25:37,860
naturally there would be things that the

512
00:25:44,849 --> 00:25:40,659
average citizen would see in the sky and

513
00:25:47,849 --> 00:25:44,859
know how to interpret and that it all

514
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:47,859
gets into this big my ass and that's

515
00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:49,690
where it started to get very difficult

516
00:25:56,430 --> 00:25:53,529
to color the fields yeah so absolutely

517
00:25:57,869 --> 00:25:56,440
yeah it really was now in Paul bennewitz

518
00:26:03,359 --> 00:25:57,879
and we're going to have to take break in

519
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:03,369
just a moment but Paul bennewitz was fed

520
00:26:08,129 --> 00:26:06,369
information is that right but I remember

521
00:26:12,239 --> 00:26:08,139
there was a story about him seeing

522
00:26:14,310 --> 00:26:12,249
beings coming through the wall yes yes I

523
00:26:16,019 --> 00:26:14,320
remember that too that kind of talk

524
00:26:18,419 --> 00:26:16,029
coming from somebody who's supposed to

525
00:26:20,460 --> 00:26:18,429
be a legitimate you know head on

526
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:20,470
straight kind of scientists that the

527
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:24,129
dealing with a large governmental agency

528
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:26,320
this is just did not please the air

529
00:26:31,919 --> 00:26:28,450
force fed that sugar cake they didn't

530
00:26:35,430 --> 00:26:31,929
like it at all but they're more

531
00:26:36,810 --> 00:26:35,440
exploited that problem by making friends

532
00:26:39,029 --> 00:26:36,820
with who he thought were the right

533
00:26:41,639 --> 00:26:39,039
people and then he ended up being

534
00:26:43,619 --> 00:26:41,649
involved was the controversy that of

535
00:26:45,869 --> 00:26:43,629
what it ended up happening to Paul you

536
00:26:47,609 --> 00:26:45,879
know and it was Amos these are the kinds

537
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:47,619
of things that happened so much in the

538
00:26:51,690 --> 00:26:49,450
UFO field that really took everybody's

539
00:26:54,330 --> 00:26:51,700
eye off the ball the ball being the

540
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:54,340
phenomenon what is it where does it come

541
00:26:59,820 --> 00:26:57,039
from how can we break it down so that we

542
00:27:05,519 --> 00:26:59,830
look at it as as you know smart human

543
00:27:07,710 --> 00:27:05,529
beings and this is too bad but it is bad

544
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:07,720
guess what it is it was what it was it

545
00:27:16,289 --> 00:27:13,210
will be will be you can take that to the

546
00:27:18,719 --> 00:27:16,299
bank in yep yep yep we're going to take

547
00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:18,729
a break right now and when we come back

548
00:27:24,659 --> 00:27:21,849
we're going to be talking about UFO

549
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:24,669
magazine UFO cases the Philadelphia

550
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:33,910
are you a fan of inception radio network

551
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:36,050
do you reckon it's the best alternative

552
00:27:40,660 --> 00:27:38,450
talk radio station on the planet well if

553
00:27:43,660 --> 00:27:40,670
you do head to facebook.com forward

554
00:27:46,210 --> 00:27:43,670
slash inception radio network like the

555
00:27:58,430 --> 00:27:46,220
page tell your friends spread the word

556
00:28:03,539 --> 00:28:01,619
hello inception radio network would you

557
00:28:05,879 --> 00:28:03,549
like the favorite show to play it again

558
00:28:08,190 --> 00:28:05,889
live on air well now the choice is in

559
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:08,200
your hand with I rn's live request

560
00:28:13,169 --> 00:28:10,210
portal an easy way to request your

561
00:28:14,909 --> 00:28:13,179
favorite show with a simple click irons

562
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:14,919
live request portal now gives you

563
00:28:20,159 --> 00:28:17,710
exclusive access to all the shows how

564
00:28:22,799 --> 00:28:20,169
easy is it simply type a show name or a

565
00:28:25,499 --> 00:28:22,809
guest name click request even write a

566
00:28:28,169 --> 00:28:25,509
dedication message that's it try it now

567
00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:28,179
simply visit inception radio network com

568
00:28:33,089 --> 00:28:30,609
click on the live requests tab under the

569
00:28:37,780 --> 00:28:33,099
show menu now playing your favorite show

570
00:28:42,110 --> 00:28:40,070
don't have a computer who's your

571
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:42,120
internet connection down don't worry use

572
00:28:47,060 --> 00:28:43,770
your trusty cellphone or landline and

573
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:47,070
call in to our listen line at 40 128 367

574
00:28:51,710 --> 00:28:48,930
00 to listen to the inception radio

575
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:51,720
network 24-7 again that Colin number is

576
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:56,250
401 to a 360 700 for the inception radio

577
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:03,180
you didn't forget what's coming up

578
00:29:07,260 --> 00:29:05,170
tonight did you hi inception radio

579
00:29:08,790 --> 00:29:07,270
network listeners this is Amanda never

580
00:29:10,380 --> 00:29:08,800
miss that interview you were looking

581
00:29:13,740 --> 00:29:10,390
forward to or the show on your favorite

582
00:29:16,410 --> 00:29:13,750
topic follow irn on twitter i underscore

583
00:29:18,570 --> 00:29:16,420
our underscore n and get reminders about

584
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:18,580
the evenings live shows as well as fun

585
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:20,170
and important updates throughout the

586
00:29:28,410 --> 00:29:23,050
week that's i underscore our underscore

587
00:29:30,180 --> 00:29:28,420
n and never miss a great show again are

588
00:29:33,060 --> 00:29:30,190
you looking for a cure for boredom never

589
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:33,070
worry I rn's new interactive website

590
00:29:37,010 --> 00:29:35,290
introduces a number of ways to pass time

591
00:29:39,810 --> 00:29:37,020
while you listen to your favorite show

592
00:29:42,780 --> 00:29:39,820
choose anything from the IR n chat

593
00:29:45,060 --> 00:29:42,790
lounge the game lounge video lounge or

594
00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:45,070
the mood lounge these fun exciting

595
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:47,110
features let you chat in real time with

596
00:29:52,140 --> 00:29:49,360
fellow listeners view live shy watches

597
00:29:53,970 --> 00:29:52,150
play daily posted online games or pick a

598
00:29:56,940 --> 00:29:53,980
show based on topic the choices are

599
00:30:01,950 --> 00:29:56,950
endless use your time wisely keeping it

600
00:30:04,530 --> 00:30:01,960
all on IRS hey IRA listeners make sure

601
00:30:06,780 --> 00:30:04,540
you tune in to night vision radio with

602
00:30:08,670 --> 00:30:06,790
Renee Barnett Renee will be exposing the

603
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:08,680
truth one secret at a time when

604
00:30:13,980 --> 00:30:11,290
Thursdays every Thursday 1030 p.m.

605
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:13,990
eastern 730 p.m. pacific their right ear

606
00:30:27,330 --> 00:30:25,049
welcome back everybody you are here on

607
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:27,340
nitrogen radio i am your host Renee

608
00:30:32,790 --> 00:30:29,770
Barnett and we're talking with

609
00:30:36,780 --> 00:30:32,800
vickicooper ecker co-founder and editor

610
00:30:40,169 --> 00:30:36,790
in chief for over 20 years of UFO

611
00:30:42,810 --> 00:30:40,179
magazine they want an only journalistic

612
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:42,820
approach to the fridge subject of UFOs

613
00:30:51,540 --> 00:30:46,000
gee that sounds fun presses doesn't it

614
00:30:52,860 --> 00:30:51,550
see me today oh yeah it was me yeah

615
00:30:54,540 --> 00:30:52,870
somebody we were just talking about Paul

616
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:54,550
bennewitz I see people are talking about

617
00:30:59,460 --> 00:30:57,250
it in the chat room and neutron says

618
00:31:04,460 --> 00:30:59,470
that bennewitz his life was ruined by

619
00:31:07,799 --> 00:31:04,470
dou T Oh Bob doozy yeah the u.s.

620
00:31:10,980 --> 00:31:07,809
misinformation officer or for the

621
00:31:13,620 --> 00:31:10,990
military or what was it yeah that's that

622
00:31:16,380 --> 00:31:13,630
believe that is who bill more of a pep

623
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:16,390
with wasn't in time together Dodi wasn't

624
00:31:20,580 --> 00:31:18,970
he pretty high-ranking oh yeah I don't

625
00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:20,590
remember what his rank was but he was

626
00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:23,110
definitely in there and doing some

627
00:31:27,390 --> 00:31:24,640
important work or what they thought was

628
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:27,400
important work at the pond and but but

629
00:31:32,450 --> 00:31:29,170
he was a very controversial figure in

630
00:31:35,250 --> 00:31:32,460
the field there were these people

631
00:31:37,470 --> 00:31:35,260
Stubblebine was one of them Dodie's and

632
00:31:39,450 --> 00:31:37,480
I there's a few others whose name I

633
00:31:42,419 --> 00:31:39,460
can't recall that actually did have

634
00:31:45,660 --> 00:31:42,429
their feet in both the intelligence

635
00:31:49,310 --> 00:31:45,670
community and UFOs there was such a

636
00:31:52,290 --> 00:31:49,320
crossover it is one of the areas that

637
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:52,300
kept things on edge all the time with

638
00:31:59,010 --> 00:31:55,690
people in the field and Billy Doty was I

639
00:32:01,549 --> 00:31:59,020
remember one who was basically despised

640
00:32:08,010 --> 00:32:01,559
by most of the researchers in the field

641
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:08,020
because of being a nosy intrusive

642
00:32:14,130 --> 00:32:11,730
disinformation agent and one that was

643
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:14,140
you know backed up by the Air Force to

644
00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:17,770
begin with so well you know we were

645
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:19,600
talking earlier about about Paul

646
00:32:26,130 --> 00:32:22,720
bennewitz in and how I remembered one of

647
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:26,140
the stories was you know that he claimed

648
00:32:31,950 --> 00:32:28,510
that he was seeing aliens you know

649
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:31,960
coming in through the walls alien beings

650
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:36,930
and was the was the idea that he was

651
00:32:42,570 --> 00:32:39,760
possibly really having some kind of

652
00:32:45,030 --> 00:32:42,580
experience or was it that he was having

653
00:32:46,860 --> 00:32:45,040
a mental breakdown at that time well

654
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:46,870
that's that's hard to say I believe

655
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:48,730
before he was considered someone that

656
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:51,010
was like having a mental breakdown he

657
00:32:55,740 --> 00:32:53,650
was having these experiences and though

658
00:32:59,100 --> 00:32:55,750
I never heard it being said outright

659
00:33:01,980 --> 00:32:59,110
it's possible he was a victim of

660
00:33:06,270 --> 00:33:01,990
psychological operations whether they

661
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:06,280
could mimic something like aliens coming

662
00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:08,530
through the wall that I really don't

663
00:33:14,940 --> 00:33:11,470
know probably nobody in the civilian

664
00:33:16,980 --> 00:33:14,950
community knows but he he basically was

665
00:33:19,470 --> 00:33:16,990
somebody that there was seeing stuff

666
00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:19,480
that the Air Force didn't want him to

667
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:24,310
broadcast and it the who knows the fact

668
00:33:30,030 --> 00:33:27,730
of the matter is if there are et aliens

669
00:33:32,450 --> 00:33:30,040
that have interface and aren't

670
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:32,460
interfacing with our planet they have

671
00:33:43,530 --> 00:33:37,290
capabilities such as trend teleportation

672
00:33:47,420 --> 00:33:43,540
disappearing in in treason into people's

673
00:33:50,070 --> 00:33:47,430
minds and brains for their own uses and

674
00:33:52,980 --> 00:33:50,080
certainly one of the things that Don and

675
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:52,990
I and you to remember are the many many

676
00:33:58,380 --> 00:33:56,170
instances of people who have had direct

677
00:34:02,850 --> 00:33:58,390
experience with either alien abduction

678
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:02,860
or memories of light coming through

679
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:05,200
their windows that sort of thing there

680
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:07,510
is a phenomenon out there and whether it

681
00:34:13,140 --> 00:34:10,720
crosses over into paranormal you know

682
00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:13,150
spook things from other dimensions or

683
00:34:18,180 --> 00:34:15,760
whether it's actual you know three

684
00:34:21,990 --> 00:34:18,190
dimensional beings coming from another

685
00:34:24,810 --> 00:34:22,000
planet it all is outside of our spectrum

686
00:34:27,660 --> 00:34:24,820
of consciousness and it deals with our

687
00:34:30,090 --> 00:34:27,670
consciousness and I think that largely

688
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:30,100
the psychological part of it is is

689
00:34:35,730 --> 00:34:33,850
probably instead of what Bill Moore was

690
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:35,740
going for is the center of the Beehive I

691
00:34:42,930 --> 00:34:37,930
do believe it's a manipulative say in

692
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:42,940
fact if anybody wants to read whom I

693
00:34:49,770 --> 00:34:45,280
think is the most

694
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:49,780
sharp author and the most willingly open

695
00:34:55,770 --> 00:34:52,810
to the possibilities out there and also

696
00:34:58,560 --> 00:34:55,780
the most articulate read jacques of la

697
00:35:02,250 --> 00:34:58,570
John Malay with that without question to

698
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:02,260
me has penetrated the phenomenon in a

699
00:35:08,820 --> 00:35:07,210
way that most NATO what is it a hammer

700
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:08,830
and nails researchers have not been able

701
00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:11,610
to do he need does look at the

702
00:35:17,730 --> 00:35:14,560
manipulative psychological part of it is

703
00:35:21,570 --> 00:35:17,740
a big part of it and I you know to this

704
00:35:24,510 --> 00:35:21,580
day as much as my interest in UFOs was

705
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:24,520
long lasting I still have a part of me

706
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:26,050
that doesn't want to go too deeply into

707
00:35:32,670 --> 00:35:28,210
looking at it because I realize it does

708
00:35:34,260 --> 00:35:32,680
affect the mind and it fix people some

709
00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:34,270
people have stronger mind for the Harris

710
00:35:38,940 --> 00:35:36,160
mom I don't think mine is that that

711
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:38,950
strong and was was certainly bolstered

712
00:35:45,390 --> 00:35:42,240
by Don and you and others who came to me

713
00:35:48,090 --> 00:35:45,400
over the course of the years it's just

714
00:35:54,450 --> 00:35:48,100
it's just one of those fields that has

715
00:35:56,430 --> 00:35:54,460
no hard-and-fast resources it has no

716
00:35:59,970 --> 00:35:56,440
they can't really get to the bottom of

717
00:36:02,130 --> 00:35:59,980
it exactly it's like it's botanist or

718
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:02,140
you pick up a thread and you think

719
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:04,450
you're getting somewhere and then it

720
00:36:10,170 --> 00:36:07,510
ended up to spray tan or or yeah all

721
00:36:12,750 --> 00:36:10,180
right and another section actually that

722
00:36:15,180 --> 00:36:12,760
that's that's exactly what happens and

723
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:15,190
so for a journalist for somebody who

724
00:36:21,290 --> 00:36:17,410
really wants facts who really wants to

725
00:36:24,330 --> 00:36:21,300
present non you know objective facts it

726
00:36:25,770 --> 00:36:24,340
couldn't be a worse kind of subject to

727
00:36:28,170 --> 00:36:25,780
try to deal with it you know it's just

728
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:28,180
because it real facts are not there

729
00:36:32,030 --> 00:36:30,010
other than this other the next quote

730
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:32,040
unquote fact that people have

731
00:36:39,300 --> 00:36:35,530
experiences that are out of the realm of

732
00:36:44,130 --> 00:36:39,310
the norm and they swear they're real to

733
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:44,140
them and they are suppressed by powers

734
00:36:49,050 --> 00:36:46,720
that be and when they are not suppress

735
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:49,060
the powers that be will go in there and

736
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:51,370
screw it up so that nobody can get a

737
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:53,530
straight line of information and and

738
00:36:59,010 --> 00:36:57,040
that that bottom line is why I just had

739
00:37:02,570 --> 00:36:59,020
said threw my hands up he said

740
00:37:05,070 --> 00:37:02,580
I'm gone okay that's it no more nomas

741
00:37:08,430 --> 00:37:05,080
yeah you mentioned you mentioned Jacques

742
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:08,440
palayan and just earlier in a little

743
00:37:13,590 --> 00:37:10,450
while ago before the break someone had

744
00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:13,600
brought up i believe it was Neutron

745
00:37:20,670 --> 00:37:18,280
asking whether or not the magazine had

746
00:37:23,610 --> 00:37:20,680
ever done anything on the work of

747
00:37:26,670 --> 00:37:23,620
Barbara Barr cilic and karla turner and

748
00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:26,680
on my death yeah I absolutely remember

749
00:37:33,630 --> 00:37:30,160
remember that and then he just mentioned

750
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:33,640
that that Barbara Barr cilic worked he

751
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:35,530
says seven years was Jacques valet which

752
00:37:41,730 --> 00:37:38,050
I did I didn't recall that I didn't know

753
00:37:46,590 --> 00:37:41,740
that either huh but now i remember the

754
00:37:50,610 --> 00:37:46,600
karla turner stuff very well barbara

755
00:37:54,810 --> 00:37:50,620
bars like a little less so did you cover

756
00:37:58,500 --> 00:37:54,820
that call it wrote a book yes I don't

757
00:38:01,130 --> 00:37:58,510
remember the actual information but but

758
00:38:04,260 --> 00:38:01,140
I do remember is quite controversial and

759
00:38:07,610 --> 00:38:04,270
she wrote an articles now see here's the

760
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:07,620
deal that article somewhere in my garage

761
00:38:13,650 --> 00:38:11,290
among the many many magazines that are

762
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:13,660
in my garage yeah at this point I have

763
00:38:18,210 --> 00:38:16,210
no recollection of exactly what her

764
00:38:20,850 --> 00:38:18,220
experience was I do know it was

765
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:20,860
considered kinky but then so are a lot

766
00:38:27,690 --> 00:38:24,970
of the abduction and or contact

767
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:27,700
experiences arrived you know people you

768
00:38:33,060 --> 00:38:29,920
this is this is a disturbing thing this

769
00:38:36,750 --> 00:38:33,070
is the troubling part of it she probably

770
00:38:39,420 --> 00:38:36,760
had a real and possibly very terrifying

771
00:38:41,490 --> 00:38:39,430
experience I had now I'm interested in

772
00:38:44,190 --> 00:38:41,500
going back into the into my garage and

773
00:38:46,650 --> 00:38:44,200
see if I can find yeah absolutely for it

774
00:38:48,570 --> 00:38:46,660
she also wrote a book anyway and it

775
00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:48,580
wasn't long after that she passed away

776
00:38:54,050 --> 00:38:51,040
Ryan I know I remember she had cancer

777
00:38:58,830 --> 00:38:54,060
but there was all you know a lot of

778
00:39:00,600 --> 00:38:58,840
conspiratorial talk about in my lab

779
00:39:01,980 --> 00:39:00,610
maybe she was one of the first that

780
00:39:06,450 --> 00:39:01,990
didn't want you know what my labs all

781
00:39:07,530 --> 00:39:06,460
right yeah ill Carolee yeah military go

782
00:39:10,170 --> 00:39:07,540
ahead and explain that though to

783
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:10,180
listeners to hell basically what it is

784
00:39:16,109 --> 00:39:12,970
is from what my

785
00:39:20,490 --> 00:39:16,119
will is really being difficult turning

786
00:39:27,290 --> 00:39:20,500
up here military operations that were

787
00:39:30,990 --> 00:39:27,300
actually a hoaxed abductions hoaxed

788
00:39:34,589 --> 00:39:31,000
contact events okay and they were

789
00:39:38,670 --> 00:39:34,599
experiments that were being done on the

790
00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:38,680
covert by our military for the sake of

791
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:42,160
simply trying to get more information

792
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:45,250
about what was going on in the field and

793
00:39:50,970 --> 00:39:48,400
with the people in the field and several

794
00:39:52,770 --> 00:39:50,980
people researchers in the field became

795
00:39:54,839 --> 00:39:52,780
experts in doing my lab coverage which

796
00:39:56,339 --> 00:39:54,849
we had in the magazine also I can't

797
00:40:00,300 --> 00:39:56,349
remember exact names at this point

798
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:00,310
though and basically they the military

799
00:40:08,370 --> 00:40:04,450
has infiltrated the subject and has he

800
00:40:12,330 --> 00:40:08,380
has exploited the subjects in order to

801
00:40:15,210 --> 00:40:12,340
keep their security where they feel it

802
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:15,220
should be it's a huge bureaucracy and it

803
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:17,410
all comes down to people who have not

804
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:19,359
had experiences whether in the military

805
00:40:25,470 --> 00:40:22,570
or not dealing with people they think

806
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:25,480
are just a little off okay or crazy and

807
00:40:30,540 --> 00:40:27,490
making sure that whatever comes out of

808
00:40:35,130 --> 00:40:30,550
that those people the the experiences

809
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:35,140
doesn't disrupt the boundaries of our D

810
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:36,880
or whatever else they're trying to keep

811
00:40:41,700 --> 00:40:38,890
secrets for all we know and if you were

812
00:40:43,770 --> 00:40:41,710
to go back into the history of UFOs the

813
00:40:45,660 --> 00:40:43,780
phenomenon is real has been real for a

814
00:40:50,900 --> 00:40:45,670
long time has been suppressed for a long

815
00:40:55,589 --> 00:40:50,910
time Ross well at all okay and has been

816
00:40:58,140 --> 00:40:55,599
solid poisoned intoxicated with so much

817
00:41:01,290 --> 00:40:58,150
disinformation that nobody who is an

818
00:41:03,089 --> 00:41:01,300
average citizen with an average mind can

819
00:41:05,430 --> 00:41:03,099
make their minds up of whether they want

820
00:41:09,109 --> 00:41:05,440
to know any more about it or not are

821
00:41:13,530 --> 00:41:09,119
either filled with fear or distrust or

822
00:41:16,380 --> 00:41:13,540
just plain a dismissive these people are

823
00:41:18,750 --> 00:41:16,390
[\h__\h] nuts excuse my language okay you

824
00:41:22,530 --> 00:41:18,760
know but that I'm telling you and what

825
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:22,540
is it that the researcher up in Canada

826
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:25,450
Stanton Friedman calls the laughter

827
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:26,650
curtain

828
00:41:34,140 --> 00:41:32,290
sturdy as ever you know and it's a shame

829
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:34,150
it's it's it's a definite shame because

830
00:41:38,340 --> 00:41:36,250
I think if science is really to try to

831
00:41:39,870 --> 00:41:38,350
get into it in a way that could be

832
00:41:42,180 --> 00:41:39,880
shared with the rest of the American

833
00:41:44,580 --> 00:41:42,190
people if not the world we'd have we

834
00:41:48,180 --> 00:41:44,590
would be able to move this planet into a

835
00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:48,190
new phase but it happened you know and

836
00:41:53,580 --> 00:41:51,520
in I think that discouragement is also

837
00:41:57,390 --> 00:41:53,590
part of why never could really stick

838
00:41:59,970 --> 00:41:57,400
with subject so yeah I will be

839
00:42:03,330 --> 00:41:59,980
depressive or anything no no no no it's

840
00:42:04,530 --> 00:42:03,340
interesting but I yeah I you know I'm

841
00:42:07,170 --> 00:42:04,540
glad somebody brought up karla turner

842
00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:07,180
because i hadn't thought of her in quite

843
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:10,720
some time and I do remember that I

844
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:12,610
remember dawn worked on that story I

845
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:15,370
believe did he know yeah he might have

846
00:42:20,790 --> 00:42:17,680
said I think he's covered that on the

847
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:20,800
magazine i'm pretty sure her yeah he'll

848
00:42:25,230 --> 00:42:22,960
really really yeah he would do that he

849
00:42:27,050 --> 00:42:25,240
did coverage of her experience and then

850
00:42:31,470 --> 00:42:27,060
at one point she wrote an article now

851
00:42:34,190 --> 00:42:31,480
now speaking of you know we did have a

852
00:42:36,930 --> 00:42:34,200
lot of people that you know came our way

853
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:36,940
during that time and you even more so

854
00:42:44,910 --> 00:42:38,530
because you were there a lot longer of

855
00:42:51,030 --> 00:42:44,920
course but what worthy what is the the

856
00:42:53,250 --> 00:42:51,040
most i guess credible case that you that

857
00:42:57,890 --> 00:42:53,260
comes to mind for you when you think in

858
00:43:03,380 --> 00:42:57,900
terms of alien abduction or experience

859
00:43:06,330 --> 00:43:03,390
that's a tough one uh alien abduction or

860
00:43:07,620 --> 00:43:06,340
I don't know I remember Don told you

861
00:43:14,190 --> 00:43:07,630
about what's going on with a Rendell

862
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:14,200
sensing well I know that he we did talk

863
00:43:20,990 --> 00:43:16,450
briefly when Don was on a couple weeks

864
00:43:25,790 --> 00:43:21,000
ago about Larry Warren and right uh and

865
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:25,800
him being you know sort of slandered by

866
00:43:34,110 --> 00:43:30,730
by Colonel halt halt yeah and yeah and

867
00:43:37,170 --> 00:43:34,120
so yeah we did know about that now

868
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:37,180
what's what can you add to that cuz we

869
00:43:41,009 --> 00:43:39,250
didn't get into a lot of it well

870
00:43:45,049 --> 00:43:41,019
basically it

871
00:43:49,529 --> 00:43:45,059
again it's an example of how in this

872
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:49,539
field of as it were people get their

873
00:43:58,679 --> 00:43:53,729
eyes taken off the ball by little

874
00:44:02,669 --> 00:43:58,689
conflicts controversies slight ethical

875
00:44:07,709 --> 00:44:02,679
violations that sort of thing halt has

876
00:44:10,529 --> 00:44:07,719
accused Larry of drug-taking and some of

877
00:44:12,779 --> 00:44:10,539
the tapes that but Hopkins did of his

878
00:44:15,389 --> 00:44:12,789
regression of the rendlesham Rendlesham

879
00:44:19,799 --> 00:44:15,399
forest was isn't written and there was a

880
00:44:22,169 --> 00:44:19,809
a bit UFO event which was seen by

881
00:44:26,159 --> 00:44:22,179
several people Larry Warren being one of

882
00:44:28,620 --> 00:44:26,169
the people it was most vocal about what

883
00:44:32,219 --> 00:44:28,630
it was it was it was an American air

884
00:44:38,130 --> 00:44:32,229
base at the time yes and nuclear workers

885
00:44:40,469 --> 00:44:38,140
yeah nuclear weaponry was there and so

886
00:44:43,349 --> 00:44:40,479
there was a bunch of Americans there and

887
00:44:49,169 --> 00:44:43,359
you know one night in December they had

888
00:44:54,509 --> 00:44:49,179
a series of evenings of experiences and

889
00:44:56,309 --> 00:44:54,519
I guess you know that is probably some

890
00:44:59,339 --> 00:44:56,319
of the best evidence because there were

891
00:45:01,469 --> 00:44:59,349
so many military personnel yeah some of

892
00:45:05,039 --> 00:45:01,479
them haven't been named but there were

893
00:45:07,079 --> 00:45:05,049
military personnel Larry warned i'm not

894
00:45:10,739 --> 00:45:07,089
sure exactly what his role was there at

895
00:45:13,919 --> 00:45:10,749
the time but he spilled the beans on

896
00:45:16,499 --> 00:45:13,929
something that was considered very sub

897
00:45:19,739 --> 00:45:16,509
rosa at least according to the military

898
00:45:22,919 --> 00:45:19,749
probably both of americans and the

899
00:45:24,629 --> 00:45:22,929
british and for that he got himself in a

900
00:45:28,829 --> 00:45:24,639
little bit of trouble it looked like

901
00:45:32,519 --> 00:45:28,839
Colonel halt because he expressed calls

902
00:45:34,919 --> 00:45:32,529
presence being there his halsa career in

903
00:45:38,159 --> 00:45:34,929
the Air Force was was the Royal Air

904
00:45:41,339 --> 00:45:38,169
Force was threatened and so he took that

905
00:45:44,519 --> 00:45:41,349
he you know came back at Larry worn by

906
00:45:46,469 --> 00:45:44,529
accusing of being a drug taker and so

907
00:45:49,409 --> 00:45:46,479
now there's this little sympathy a

908
00:45:51,809 --> 00:45:49,419
teapot and the actual what has happened

909
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:51,819
were diverted away from the fact that

910
00:45:57,630 --> 00:45:54,730
there was some kind of UFO oriented

911
00:46:02,550 --> 00:45:57,640
experience on a nuclear-armed airbase

912
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:02,560
okay new a little squabble between Larry

913
00:46:07,099 --> 00:46:04,930
and this colonel and these are the kinds

914
00:46:10,260 --> 00:46:07,109
of things that really really are

915
00:46:11,820 --> 00:46:10,270
fabulous for the people that want to

916
00:46:15,090 --> 00:46:11,830
keep the laughter curtain and the

917
00:46:17,240 --> 00:46:15,100
misinformation of top of the phenomenon

918
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:17,250
because it takes people for tension away

919
00:46:22,620 --> 00:46:19,930
from the phenomenon and puts it on

920
00:46:24,750 --> 00:46:22,630
personal squabbles or whatever okay and

921
00:46:27,060 --> 00:46:24,760
it's that that to me is where the big

922
00:46:30,510 --> 00:46:27,070
failing of the field is a field keep it

923
00:46:32,460 --> 00:46:30,520
on the ball and and don't let these

924
00:46:35,070 --> 00:46:32,470
petty things get in the way that we

925
00:46:37,170 --> 00:46:35,080
won't get a little farther when I say we

926
00:46:39,150 --> 00:46:37,180
it's the generic week because I'm not

927
00:46:41,420 --> 00:46:39,160
part of this anymore but there are still

928
00:46:44,910 --> 00:46:41,430
good researchers out there and

929
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:44,920
Rendlesham is maybe one case that has

930
00:46:50,609 --> 00:46:47,650
some really good backing there was other

931
00:46:52,830 --> 00:46:50,619
ones that seemed good at first like I

932
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:52,840
can't remember her name but there was

933
00:46:59,400 --> 00:46:55,330
one that bed Hopkins ended up being

934
00:47:02,370 --> 00:46:59,410
hugely controversial oh Linda Cortina

935
00:47:05,490 --> 00:47:02,380
yes Linda Napolitano yeah thought of

936
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:05,500
right right and all these things took

937
00:47:10,290 --> 00:47:07,930
everybody away from pulled everybody

938
00:47:11,970 --> 00:47:10,300
away if they allow themselves to be

939
00:47:14,490 --> 00:47:11,980
pulled away mainly because if you were

940
00:47:16,620 --> 00:47:14,500
to be pulled two of the ball beautiful

941
00:47:18,810 --> 00:47:16,630
phenomena yeah a lot of emptiness there

942
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:18,820
that you had to dive through to find

943
00:47:24,330 --> 00:47:22,090
anything it so basically this was not a

944
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:24,340
subject that was set up for a legitimate

945
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:27,520
of journalistic approach and we gave it

946
00:47:32,370 --> 00:47:29,770
the good a good college try though and

947
00:47:34,050 --> 00:47:32,380
that's what we did you know and nobody

948
00:47:36,180 --> 00:47:34,060
ever did before his daughter will tell

949
00:47:39,090 --> 00:47:36,190
me all the time or will probably do it

950
00:47:42,810 --> 00:47:39,100
after but whatever yeah you know that

951
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:42,820
that Linda Napolitano / you know cortile

952
00:47:46,620 --> 00:47:45,130
I think was revealed right right one of

953
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:46,630
them was a real name and the other one

954
00:47:50,820 --> 00:47:48,210
was the name that was used in the book

955
00:47:53,460 --> 00:47:50,830
Paula Tana was her real name but I

956
00:47:56,490 --> 00:47:53,470
haven't no items and I remember that

957
00:48:00,000 --> 00:47:56,500
story because it was it happened in

958
00:48:04,490 --> 00:48:00,010
manhattan new york city and supposedly

959
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:04,500
she was floated out of her apartment

960
00:48:13,230 --> 00:48:08,570
window and beam onto a ship

961
00:48:16,060 --> 00:48:13,240
and was seen supposedly by a UN official

962
00:48:18,310 --> 00:48:16,070
that all you remember you good memory

963
00:48:22,030 --> 00:48:18,320
girls going down you know going down the

964
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:22,040
road and I remember it was a big stir I

965
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:24,290
remember there were like some pictures

966
00:48:29,140 --> 00:48:26,330
that were captured of her running down

967
00:48:31,900 --> 00:48:29,150
the beach being chased or something I

968
00:48:34,060 --> 00:48:31,910
don't remember but what did ever happen

969
00:48:36,610 --> 00:48:34,070
with that case you know I think it's

970
00:48:39,550 --> 00:48:36,620
vzyal and running away into the universe

971
00:48:41,530 --> 00:48:39,560
like there was eventually you know they

972
00:48:44,140 --> 00:48:41,540
because people will hop from one case to

973
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:44,150
the other but Hopkins God rest his soul

974
00:48:49,630 --> 00:48:46,970
passed away I don't know I think it was

975
00:48:52,530 --> 00:48:49,640
the early two thousand I can't hear and

976
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:52,540
he was considered a legitimate abduction

977
00:49:00,670 --> 00:48:57,290
regression researcher and yet his name

978
00:49:03,910 --> 00:49:00,680
was brought up with this Rendlesham

979
00:49:06,310 --> 00:49:03,920
thing all these little scandalous items

980
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:06,320
get sewn onto certain cases so if there

981
00:49:11,050 --> 00:49:08,570
was one that was real and had some real

982
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:11,060
validity that had a trajectory that

983
00:49:16,330 --> 00:49:13,970
could be followed something inevitably

984
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:16,340
seems to come to these cases and mix

985
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:19,370
them up and pollutes them to the point

986
00:49:28,630 --> 00:49:23,690
where even the most rigorous digging

987
00:49:32,590 --> 00:49:28,640
researcher gets thrown away into another

988
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:32,600
a whole other area and its really a pity

989
00:49:41,770 --> 00:49:37,280
it's only if you know if someday if

990
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:41,780
something happens that CNN Fox News CBS

991
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:47,690
NBC ABC at all are forced to look at it

992
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:51,650
it you know objectively it's there we

993
00:49:55,870 --> 00:49:54,410
can't miss it then we may have some real

994
00:49:59,290 --> 00:49:55,880
progress but I don't see anything

995
00:50:02,260 --> 00:49:59,300
happening before them unless there's

996
00:50:06,930 --> 00:50:02,270
just some some dramatic change I mean

997
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:06,940
the whole socio-economic system here I

998
00:50:14,020 --> 00:50:10,730
two cases you know a abduction or

999
00:50:16,810 --> 00:50:14,030
experience jump out at me when I think

1000
00:50:19,060 --> 00:50:16,820
of you know because of it you know I

1001
00:50:20,650 --> 00:50:19,070
spent a lot of time looking into that

1002
00:50:21,550 --> 00:50:20,660
subject you know I was one of the

1003
00:50:23,890 --> 00:50:21,560
founders of

1004
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:23,900
ciro close encounter research

1005
00:50:30,220 --> 00:50:26,000
organization with Yvonne Smith many

1006
00:50:32,980 --> 00:50:30,230
years ago and that was our whole thing

1007
00:50:34,660 --> 00:50:32,990
was to look into that phenomenon and to

1008
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:34,670
help people that were going through it

1009
00:50:41,020 --> 00:50:38,510
and I tell you you know there were

1010
00:50:43,860 --> 00:50:41,030
people that I could tell really believe

1011
00:50:46,750 --> 00:50:43,870
that they were having experiences some

1012
00:50:48,850 --> 00:50:46,760
seem that they were some seem that

1013
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:48,860
possibly they had some other things you

1014
00:50:56,380 --> 00:50:52,930
know psychologically may be going on but

1015
00:50:59,260 --> 00:50:56,390
but it was just really hard to sort of

1016
00:51:02,650 --> 00:50:59,270
get to the bottom of but in talking to

1017
00:51:06,870 --> 00:51:02,660
people throughout the years the two

1018
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:06,880
cases that really jumped out at me were

1019
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:12,050
Betty and Barney Hill yeah Brian and

1020
00:51:20,260 --> 00:51:16,640
Travis Walton and everyone yeah and I

1021
00:51:23,380 --> 00:51:20,270
remember you know I did get a chance to

1022
00:51:26,110 --> 00:51:23,390
get to know Betty a little bit and we

1023
00:51:31,060 --> 00:51:26,120
had some fantastic conversations I mean

1024
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:31,070
she was such a sharp lady and she was

1025
00:51:38,830 --> 00:51:35,570
you know very outspoken in very salty i

1026
00:51:42,430 --> 00:51:38,840
really enjoyed our conversations and she

1027
00:51:45,970 --> 00:51:42,440
told me that she really believed that

1028
00:51:49,420 --> 00:51:45,980
Travis Waltons case was was was genuine

1029
00:51:53,050 --> 00:51:49,430
in you another one that I kind of got

1030
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:53,060
into a little bit less but more recently

1031
00:52:00,040 --> 00:51:56,570
I've been looking at and it was the

1032
00:52:02,500 --> 00:52:00,050
Betty andreasson case right that was a

1033
00:52:04,930 --> 00:52:02,510
very very good we did cover stories on

1034
00:52:07,870 --> 00:52:04,940
both of those well I just had I had

1035
00:52:11,410 --> 00:52:07,880
Betty and and her husband Bob on the

1036
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:11,420
show a few weeks ago oh really yeah

1037
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:14,050
uh-huh they've got a new book that's out

1038
00:52:20,410 --> 00:52:17,090
that they have written on their

1039
00:52:23,860 --> 00:52:20,420
experiences and about their original

1040
00:52:25,240 --> 00:52:23,870
experience right yes an ongoing and I

1041
00:52:29,310 --> 00:52:25,250
thought they have a subsequent

1042
00:52:31,180 --> 00:52:29,320
subsequent experience yeah and in Bob

1043
00:52:33,460 --> 00:52:31,190
you know had his own separate

1044
00:52:35,230 --> 00:52:33,470
experiences and I think that's how they

1045
00:52:37,420 --> 00:52:35,240
ended up getting together

1046
00:52:40,090 --> 00:52:37,430
Bablu prices are fascinating thing about

1047
00:52:42,970 --> 00:52:40,100
the phenomenon per se as it were or

1048
00:52:46,740 --> 00:52:42,980
whatever it does seem to select certain

1049
00:52:49,930 --> 00:52:46,750
individuals that have continuing ongoing

1050
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:49,940
experiences which could lead one to

1051
00:52:55,030 --> 00:52:52,010
think that perhaps there is a mental

1052
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:55,040
state or a certain configuration of the

1053
00:53:00,120 --> 00:52:57,290
brain that lends itself to these

1054
00:53:02,470 --> 00:53:00,130
contacts whereas somebody else's

1055
00:53:04,900 --> 00:53:02,480
configuration of mental state doesn't

1056
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:04,910
you know that's why the interplay

1057
00:53:13,780 --> 00:53:08,810
between what could be considered hammer

1058
00:53:15,790 --> 00:53:13,790
and nails reality and a non dimensional

1059
00:53:19,540 --> 00:53:15,800
a nun dimension other dimensional

1060
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:19,550
reality intersect in a way that makes a

1061
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:21,920
you know any kind of conclusions

1062
00:53:27,100 --> 00:53:25,490
virtually impossible and and and it

1063
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:27,110
makes you wonder about the people that

1064
00:53:32,620 --> 00:53:29,570
have these experiences what is it about

1065
00:53:36,030 --> 00:53:32,630
their mental state that causes them to

1066
00:53:38,530 --> 00:53:36,040
almost be able to invite certain

1067
00:53:40,900 --> 00:53:38,540
experiences speaking of invitation

1068
00:53:44,470 --> 00:53:40,910
that's right well you know is it could

1069
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:44,480
it be something a sort of in the same

1070
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:48,770
vein as some people have prophetic

1071
00:53:55,599 --> 00:53:52,490
dreams some people have psychic

1072
00:53:58,480 --> 00:53:55,609
experiences I know you know my mom does

1073
00:54:01,480 --> 00:53:58,490
all the time you know surely oh yeah my

1074
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:01,490
god she's always in it Oh for instance

1075
00:54:07,210 --> 00:54:04,880
you know what years ago you know when I

1076
00:54:09,940 --> 00:54:07,220
was a kid she would always know when

1077
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:09,950
something was wrong like you know I was

1078
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:13,130
out one day and I was with a boy I was

1079
00:54:21,060 --> 00:54:17,210
15 he was 16 and he let me drive his car

1080
00:54:24,970 --> 00:54:21,070
and I hit it I hit a man on a tractor

1081
00:54:27,370 --> 00:54:24,980
they're thawed he wasn't seriously hurt

1082
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:27,380
he flew up the tractor and landed in the

1083
00:54:34,750 --> 00:54:30,050
in the pasture not on the highway which

1084
00:54:38,770 --> 00:54:34,760
was really good but anyhow but anyhow at

1085
00:54:41,770 --> 00:54:38,780
the moment that happened my sisters and

1086
00:54:43,870 --> 00:54:41,780
my parents were at home and my mom just

1087
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:43,880
looked up and said you know she's been

1088
00:54:48,490 --> 00:54:46,400
an accident and then when I walked in

1089
00:54:48,890 --> 00:54:48,500
the door a little bit late I said I'm

1090
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:48,900
sorry

1091
00:54:52,580 --> 00:54:50,400
I was in an accident everybody else oh

1092
00:54:54,620 --> 00:54:52,590
my god all these are but things like

1093
00:54:56,270 --> 00:54:54,630
that happened all the time so now what

1094
00:54:58,700 --> 00:54:56,280
you don't want to say as things happen

1095
00:55:01,520 --> 00:54:58,710
to you like that sometimes now don't say

1096
00:55:03,610 --> 00:55:01,530
Renee and that you have to wait for

1097
00:55:08,090 --> 00:55:03,620
another episode ladies and gentlemen

1098
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:08,100
that's why I do remember that I used to

1099
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:09,570
do you remember what I used to call

1100
00:55:15,170 --> 00:55:12,330
myself when you would lose something at

1101
00:55:17,660 --> 00:55:15,180
the office I remember what I had for

1102
00:55:21,650 --> 00:55:17,670
breakfast i'm okay i am your psychic

1103
00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:21,660
binder and i right i would always you

1104
00:55:26,660 --> 00:55:24,240
know you would miss play something and

1105
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:26,670
for some reason i could always go right

1106
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:30,810
to it right mr. psyching like i did I

1107
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:33,570
remember that but I didn't exploit your

1108
00:55:45,830 --> 00:55:44,510
anyhow um let's see we've got about two

1109
00:55:47,420 --> 00:55:45,840
and a half minutes or so before the

1110
00:55:48,620 --> 00:55:47,430
break but let me see if I can get it a

1111
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:48,630
quick question from the chapter

1112
00:55:54,860 --> 00:55:50,490
someone's wanting to know what you think

1113
00:55:56,750 --> 00:55:54,870
about uh and I'm sorry I don't remember

1114
00:55:58,970 --> 00:55:56,760
who asked the question now I don't want

1115
00:56:03,410 --> 00:55:58,980
to scroll back about what you thought

1116
00:56:06,190 --> 00:56:03,420
about the bob lazar story and what you

1117
00:56:11,180 --> 00:56:06,200
think about his return to the UFO

1118
00:56:13,850 --> 00:56:11,190
conference tables this uh this you know

1119
00:56:16,250 --> 00:56:13,860
he's backed is he back doing some talk

1120
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:16,260
you know I had just heard that fairly

1121
00:56:20,750 --> 00:56:19,290
recently but I didn't you know I am I

1122
00:56:23,210 --> 00:56:20,760
think I read something about it on

1123
00:56:24,860 --> 00:56:23,220
online somewhere but i just passed over

1124
00:56:27,110 --> 00:56:24,870
it I thought that's interesting and

1125
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:27,120
that's about as far as it went but his

1126
00:56:36,050 --> 00:56:32,610
experience visa V a real reporter really

1127
00:56:37,300 --> 00:56:36,060
added legs to what he was he claimed and

1128
00:56:41,540 --> 00:56:37,310
you're talking about Shorty's nap

1129
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:41,550
exactly George now oh yes probably one

1130
00:56:47,900 --> 00:56:45,530
of the most brave of conventional

1131
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:47,910
broadcasters although he's it's not just

1132
00:56:53,540 --> 00:56:51,090
conventionally is award-winning ever to

1133
00:56:56,330 --> 00:56:53,550
have taken on the ticket on the UFO

1134
00:56:59,570 --> 00:56:56,340
subject and through Lazar went quite a

1135
00:57:02,420 --> 00:56:59,580
distance with it and Lazar claims to

1136
00:57:06,980 --> 00:57:02,430
have seen this sports model UFO

1137
00:57:12,500 --> 00:57:06,990
in the hallowed halls of the secret area

1138
00:57:15,710 --> 00:57:12,510
51 I like all other such stories since I

1139
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:15,720
don't have the ability to read minds or

1140
00:57:22,549 --> 00:57:19,200
to really research far enough to know

1141
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:22,559
took at face value and I really did

1142
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:25,250
respect the fact that there was a

1143
00:57:30,770 --> 00:57:27,930
legitimate hard-nosed journalist that

1144
00:57:33,950 --> 00:57:30,780
was taking him seriously the fact that

1145
00:57:37,099 --> 00:57:33,960
he's back talking about his experience

1146
00:57:39,230 --> 00:57:37,109
man i think is great as long as he's not

1147
00:57:41,870 --> 00:57:39,240
compromising national security while

1148
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:41,880
he's doing so and even if he is for

1149
00:57:47,870 --> 00:57:43,890
God's sake it's about time we had some

1150
00:57:50,180 --> 00:57:47,880
more people that really scientifically

1151
00:57:53,540 --> 00:57:50,190
understand some of the physics involved

1152
00:57:55,790 --> 00:57:53,550
with how these crafts could work you

1153
00:57:58,730 --> 00:57:55,800
know sharing their sharing their

1154
00:58:00,589 --> 00:57:58,740
information I can I would never try to

1155
00:58:02,059 --> 00:58:00,599
say that I believe him one hundred

1156
00:58:04,819 --> 00:58:02,069
percent because there's no way I could I

1157
00:58:07,549 --> 00:58:04,829
can't say that about anybody only my own

1158
00:58:10,549 --> 00:58:07,559
had the opportunity you know to talk

1159
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:10,559
with him several times I don't know if

1160
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:13,650
you knew this but for a time being my

1161
00:58:21,740 --> 00:58:17,250
little production company oxid his life

1162
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:21,750
rights for oh yes uh huh and we got very

1163
00:58:28,339 --> 00:58:24,960
very close to a television movie about

1164
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:28,349
his story oh and great yeah that would

1165
00:58:32,539 --> 00:58:30,210
have been so so neat minute fell apart

1166
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:32,549
but for political reasons not anything

1167
00:58:38,450 --> 00:58:35,730
to do with the government just the

1168
00:58:41,690 --> 00:58:38,460
machinations of the movie business but

1169
00:58:45,620 --> 00:58:41,700
anyhow yeah always ever understood how

1170
00:58:48,430 --> 00:58:45,630
you put up with that Renee oh but he

1171
00:58:51,650 --> 00:58:48,440
struck me is very credible we really did

1172
00:58:53,299 --> 00:58:51,660
anyway I often a lot yeah yeah talking

1173
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:53,309
to him is that setting one on one for

1174
00:58:58,549 --> 00:58:55,920
this how George was able to be convinced

1175
00:59:00,950 --> 00:58:58,559
of his validity oh I'm sure it makes a

1176
00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:00,960
big difference it really does now we're

1177
00:59:03,890 --> 00:59:02,640
going to have to take another break can

1178
00:59:05,150 --> 00:59:03,900
you believe it we've already gone

1179
00:59:08,420 --> 00:59:05,160
another half hour

1180
00:59:11,059 --> 00:59:08,430
and I felt just one more to go so we

1181
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:11,069
will be back shortly with vickicooper

1182
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:14,130
ecker and more night vision radio we'll

1183
00:59:36,380 --> 00:59:24,339
you're listening to Ira the inception

1184
00:59:40,460 --> 00:59:38,630
don't have a computer is your internet

1185
00:59:42,259 --> 00:59:40,470
connection down don't worry use your

1186
00:59:45,890 --> 00:59:42,269
trusty cellphone or landline and Colin

1187
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:45,900
to our listen line at 40 128 367 00 to

1188
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:47,490
listen to the inception radio network

1189
00:59:54,769 --> 00:59:51,450
24-7 again that Colin number is 401 to a

1190
00:59:58,800 --> 00:59:54,779
360 700 for the inception radio network

1191
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:01,890
you have a smartphone if so conception

1192
01:00:07,260 --> 01:00:03,730
radio network is the best out for you

1193
01:00:09,330 --> 01:00:07,270
available itunes android samsung and

1194
01:00:11,790 --> 01:00:09,340
most of our app stores just search

1195
01:00:13,740 --> 01:00:11,800
inception radio network with the

1196
01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:13,750
applicant is in line check out more

1197
01:00:18,300 --> 01:00:16,240
cards to recent amp are shown who are

1198
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:18,310
videos see what shows are coming up

1199
01:00:23,940 --> 01:00:21,250
through the guests are via the chat room

1200
01:00:26,130 --> 01:00:23,950
send live questions to those guests you

1201
01:00:29,250 --> 01:00:26,140
know it makes sense check your app store

1202
01:00:34,410 --> 01:00:29,260
now inception radio network I'll see you

1203
01:00:37,140 --> 01:00:34,420
there looking for a cure for boredom

1204
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:37,150
never worry I rn's interactive website

1205
01:00:40,430 --> 01:00:39,130
introduces a number of ways to pass time

1206
01:00:43,380 --> 01:00:40,440
while you listen to your favorite show

1207
01:00:45,750 --> 01:00:43,390
choose anything from the irn chat lounge

1208
01:00:48,300 --> 01:00:45,760
game lounge video lounge with a mood

1209
01:00:50,190 --> 01:00:48,310
lounge these fun exciting featured let

1210
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:50,200
you chat in real time with fellow

1211
01:00:55,710 --> 01:00:53,050
listeners you live Sky watches play

1212
01:00:57,750 --> 01:00:55,720
daily posted online games or make a show

1213
01:01:00,570 --> 01:00:57,760
based on topic the choices are endless

1214
01:01:08,010 --> 01:01:00,580
so use your time wisely by keeping it

1215
01:01:10,770 --> 01:01:08,020
all on irn hi Bob tarmac for mj's

1216
01:01:13,140 --> 01:01:10,780
healthy Wacom are you two fighting as

1217
01:01:16,410 --> 01:01:13,150
nutrition meal replacements health

1218
01:01:19,710 --> 01:01:16,420
shakes keeping your body in good shape

1219
01:01:22,470 --> 01:01:19,720
your internal engine going yeah why do I

1220
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:22,480
am a perfect place for you mj's healthy

1221
01:01:26,970 --> 01:01:25,090
Wacom they offer the best service and

1222
01:01:28,710 --> 01:01:26,980
products and they'll tell you anything

1223
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:28,720
you need to know about any part they

1224
01:01:34,050 --> 01:01:31,450
have to offer I can all my vitamins meal

1225
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:34,060
replacement shakes from mj's healthy

1226
01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:38,530
Wacom that spelled MJ s healthy Wacom

1227
01:01:50,990 --> 01:01:41,200
there's so much more the website go

1228
01:01:55,650 --> 01:01:53,580
hi inception radio network listeners

1229
01:01:57,660 --> 01:01:55,660
this is Amanda just a reminder that

1230
01:02:01,290 --> 01:01:57,670
inception radio network is on twitter

1231
01:02:03,570 --> 01:02:01,300
follow us at i underscore our underscore

1232
01:02:05,250 --> 01:02:03,580
and and keep up to date about who's on

1233
01:02:07,650 --> 01:02:05,260
tonight what interviews they'll be doing

1234
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:07,660
whose guest spotting what topics will be

1235
01:02:11,970 --> 01:02:10,330
covering tweet us tweet about us retweet

1236
01:02:13,710 --> 01:02:11,980
topics to your friends and most

1237
01:02:16,380 --> 01:02:13,720
importantly never miss a great show

1238
01:02:21,780 --> 01:02:16,390
again that's i underscore our underscore

1239
01:02:23,730 --> 01:02:21,790
and are you a fan of inception radio

1240
01:02:25,620 --> 01:02:23,740
network do you reckon it's the best

1241
01:02:27,810 --> 01:02:25,630
alternative talk radio station on the

1242
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:27,820
planet well if you do head to

1243
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:30,490
facebook.com forward slash inception

1244
01:02:35,190 --> 01:02:33,370
radio network like your page tell your

1245
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:35,200
friends spread the word and keep

1246
01:02:46,590 --> 01:02:44,650
listening to the best the low inception

1247
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:46,600
radio network listeners would you like

1248
01:02:50,700 --> 01:02:48,370
your favorite show to be played live on

1249
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:50,710
air well now the choice is in your hand

1250
01:02:56,070 --> 01:02:54,010
irn live requests portal an easy way to

1251
01:02:58,440 --> 01:02:56,080
request your favorite show with a simple

1252
01:03:00,510 --> 01:02:58,450
click I rn's live request portal now

1253
01:03:03,210 --> 01:03:00,520
gives you exclusive access to all the

1254
01:03:05,310 --> 01:03:03,220
shows how easy is it simply type a show

1255
01:03:07,650 --> 01:03:05,320
name or a guest name click request and

1256
01:03:10,109 --> 01:03:07,660
even write a dedication message

1257
01:03:12,150 --> 01:03:10,119
try it now simply visit inception radio

1258
01:03:14,700 --> 01:03:12,160
network com click on the live request

1259
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:14,710
tab under the show menu playing your

1260
01:03:28,289 --> 01:03:25,589
hey I RN listeners make sure you tune in

1261
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:28,299
to night vision radio with Renee Barnett

1262
01:03:32,849 --> 01:03:30,250
Renee will be exposing the truth one

1263
01:03:35,670 --> 01:03:32,859
secret at a time when Thursday's every

1264
01:03:44,039 --> 01:03:35,680
Thursday 1030pm Eastern sub 30 p.m.

1265
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:44,049
pacific we're right here IRA welcome

1266
01:03:48,450 --> 01:03:45,970
back to night vision radio I'm your host

1267
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:48,460
Renee Barnett we're talking with

1268
01:03:54,599 --> 01:03:50,890
vickicooper ecker she is the co-founder

1269
01:03:58,289 --> 01:03:54,609
and former editor-in-chief for more than

1270
01:04:01,859 --> 01:03:58,299
20 years of UFO magazine I consider her

1271
01:04:04,349 --> 01:04:01,869
the first lady of the UFO subject but

1272
01:04:08,190 --> 01:04:04,359
that I'm a little bit prejudiced but

1273
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:08,200
that's okay no I you know looking back I

1274
01:04:13,319 --> 01:04:10,690
do remember and I know we're sort of

1275
01:04:15,140 --> 01:04:13,329
backtracking a little bit but when I was

1276
01:04:19,890 --> 01:04:15,150
working on the magazine with you I

1277
01:04:22,589 --> 01:04:19,900
remember you taught me the I guess it's

1278
01:04:27,269 --> 01:04:22,599
what is it the Credo of the journalists

1279
01:04:29,339 --> 01:04:27,279
credo something like that yeah disturbed

1280
01:04:32,279 --> 01:04:29,349
and disturb it's not very comfortable

1281
01:04:35,190 --> 01:04:32,289
self its turban disturbs comfortable yes

1282
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:35,200
exactly because that's what facts do you

1283
01:04:39,420 --> 01:04:36,970
know when you get down to it straight

1284
01:04:41,220 --> 01:04:39,430
tracks are hard for most people to take

1285
01:04:43,410 --> 01:04:41,230
as they have a big bleep they have some

1286
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:43,420
kind of belief system that makes them

1287
01:04:46,859 --> 01:04:45,130
feel comfortable in their day-to-day

1288
01:04:50,819 --> 01:04:46,869
life and you can't blame them everybody

1289
01:04:53,250 --> 01:04:50,829
has I have it I know for sure and to

1290
01:04:57,150 --> 01:04:53,260
have startling facts about something

1291
01:05:00,180 --> 01:04:57,160
that you cannot know whether is helpful

1292
01:05:02,730 --> 01:05:00,190
or harmful like UFOs and it certainly

1293
01:05:04,819 --> 01:05:02,740
has been shown over the past that

1294
01:05:08,339 --> 01:05:04,829
there's a harmful element to UFO

1295
01:05:12,390 --> 01:05:08,349
phenomenon it it makes people just want

1296
01:05:16,559 --> 01:05:12,400
to want to back off and but and it makes

1297
01:05:18,599 --> 01:05:16,569
even more so the reporter has to be

1298
01:05:20,819 --> 01:05:18,609
brave courageous to step out and make

1299
01:05:21,300 --> 01:05:20,829
those facts known and that think this is

1300
01:05:22,980 --> 01:05:21,310
one of the big

1301
01:05:26,070 --> 01:05:22,990
problems right now with our politics

1302
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:26,080
nobody wants to face the facts basically

1303
01:05:31,260 --> 01:05:28,690
we want to remain complacent and we have

1304
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:31,270
huge numbers of new people coming to

1305
01:05:37,140 --> 01:05:34,410
this country that also have a very

1306
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:37,150
narrowcast about what they want in life

1307
01:05:41,610 --> 01:05:38,650
and what they want to know in life and

1308
01:05:44,970 --> 01:05:41,620
this does not help to me it's like

1309
01:05:48,090 --> 01:05:44,980
knowledge and knowing what's behind the

1310
01:05:50,010 --> 01:05:48,100
the facade that we see every day is far

1311
01:05:54,210 --> 01:05:50,020
more important than just being

1312
01:05:57,450 --> 01:05:54,220
comfortable that's not to say but I

1313
01:05:58,860 --> 01:05:57,460
don't aim for comfort every day that

1314
01:06:01,200 --> 01:05:58,870
anything else at this point in my life

1315
01:06:03,750 --> 01:06:01,210
okay you want to be standing like I'm

1316
01:06:07,020 --> 01:06:03,760
out there fighting for Shaq's every day

1317
01:06:09,540 --> 01:06:07,030
because I'm not okay yeah when I come

1318
01:06:13,290 --> 01:06:09,550
off sounding like I'm you know some

1319
01:06:17,430 --> 01:06:13,300
brave journalist or something I'm not

1320
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:17,440
anymore so but you know we've been you

1321
01:06:23,850 --> 01:06:19,330
know talking about this subject I mean

1322
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:23,860
we as a society for a lot of decades now

1323
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:29,290
and it's you know if it's true which it

1324
01:06:36,150 --> 01:06:33,130
can't be not true because there's just

1325
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:36,160
too many people too many witnesses too

1326
01:06:44,790 --> 01:06:40,690
much evidence and it's just logical why

1327
01:06:48,030 --> 01:06:44,800
would this little tiny planet which is a

1328
01:06:51,330 --> 01:06:48,040
in a fairly young you know solar system

1329
01:06:55,770 --> 01:06:51,340
a young planet be the only one in the

1330
01:06:59,340 --> 01:06:55,780
entire universe to have intelligent life

1331
01:07:01,920 --> 01:06:59,350
it just makes sense that's why I'm you

1332
01:07:05,490 --> 01:07:01,930
know and again that was another factor

1333
01:07:07,170 --> 01:07:05,500
big factor that lent me into going into

1334
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:07,180
the field trying to do a magazine about

1335
01:07:12,930 --> 01:07:10,450
there's no possible way and anyone who

1336
01:07:16,290 --> 01:07:12,940
thinks that has tied themselves up into

1337
01:07:20,460 --> 01:07:16,300
need an egoic orientation that doesn't

1338
01:07:22,950 --> 01:07:20,470
the totally contradicts reality I mean

1339
01:07:25,740 --> 01:07:22,960
this I don't know if you remember when

1340
01:07:28,410 --> 01:07:25,750
the photos of the Hubble telescope came

1341
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:28,420
out that showed those things that look

1342
01:07:34,980 --> 01:07:31,330
like stars which were actual galaxies do

1343
01:07:36,810 --> 01:07:34,990
yes I will go and look at those pictures

1344
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:36,820
I just I'd call them up on my computer

1345
01:07:41,580 --> 01:07:39,490
just to look at them to keep my

1346
01:07:44,490 --> 01:07:41,590
perspective where I wanted it to be and

1347
01:07:46,650 --> 01:07:44,500
that to me is like how can anyone look

1348
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:46,660
at that and hear what they are okay

1349
01:07:49,859 --> 01:07:48,250
we're hearing that these are the stars

1350
01:07:51,150 --> 01:07:49,869
that you're seeing like when you're

1351
01:07:54,090 --> 01:07:51,160
laying on the beach at night or in the

1352
01:07:57,450 --> 01:07:54,100
desert these are galaxies that this

1353
01:08:00,930 --> 01:07:57,460
incredible incredible camera has caught

1354
01:08:04,370 --> 01:08:00,940
for the benefit and the joy of mankind

1355
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:04,380
and you tell me that were the only

1356
01:08:11,700 --> 01:08:08,050
organisms on the planet I mean insane in

1357
01:08:14,070 --> 01:08:11,710
the universe I'm sorry does not wash in

1358
01:08:17,300 --> 01:08:14,080
fact to tell you the truth bottom line

1359
01:08:20,249 --> 01:08:17,310
Renee I believe that there are

1360
01:08:22,349 --> 01:08:20,259
extraterrestrial or beings that are from

1361
01:08:24,690 --> 01:08:22,359
other places that are on this planet now

1362
01:08:27,570 --> 01:08:24,700
I have a feeling that they are in

1363
01:08:31,260 --> 01:08:27,580
government as they are in education that

1364
01:08:33,269 --> 01:08:31,270
they are in military and God knows for

1365
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:33,279
sure probably the entertainment industry

1366
01:08:40,470 --> 01:08:37,690
okay and we just are not aware of it nor

1367
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:40,480
are we necessarily have to be aware of

1368
01:08:47,220 --> 01:08:43,210
it at this time and it's not necessarily

1369
01:08:49,079 --> 01:08:47,230
easy for them to be here either and the

1370
01:08:51,030 --> 01:08:49,089
ones that are here are making a great

1371
01:08:52,890 --> 01:08:51,040
sacrifice i would think some of them

1372
01:08:55,530 --> 01:08:52,900
anyway then there could be other ones

1373
01:08:57,990 --> 01:08:55,540
that are here for nefarious purposes and

1374
01:09:00,180 --> 01:08:58,000
to me this would not be at all surprised

1375
01:09:03,690 --> 01:09:00,190
i wouldn't be surprised if some of us

1376
01:09:05,340 --> 01:09:03,700
have run across alien beings we call an

1377
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:05,350
alien beans or ETS whatever you want to

1378
01:09:10,380 --> 01:09:07,330
call them at some time in our lives

1379
01:09:13,650 --> 01:09:10,390
without ever knowing and everybody was

1380
01:09:17,910 --> 01:09:13,660
it someone knows it yes somebody knows

1381
01:09:20,910 --> 01:09:17,920
what that sheesh man and who knows it no

1382
01:09:24,410 --> 01:09:20,920
no no I wish I did know who know that

1383
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:24,420
the Illuminati the Bilderbergers or

1384
01:09:30,630 --> 01:09:27,730
horizon well certainly couldn't be Obama

1385
01:09:34,470 --> 01:09:30,640
and couldn't be out of them maybe Steven

1386
01:09:36,690 --> 01:09:34,480
Spielberg knows that maybe I don't know

1387
01:09:38,789 --> 01:09:36,700
it's you know it's all speculation to

1388
01:09:40,410 --> 01:09:38,799
most of us at this point but there's no

1389
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:40,420
reason why we shouldn't be able to

1390
01:09:44,550 --> 01:09:42,730
freely explore it without the field

1391
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:44,560
[\h__\h] alright without the subject matter

1392
01:09:48,809 --> 01:09:47,410
being sullied by outside influences that

1393
01:09:51,030 --> 01:09:48,819
don't want people

1394
01:09:53,339 --> 01:09:51,040
no this oppression that keeps us from

1395
01:09:55,770 --> 01:09:53,349
knowing at least Clues having little

1396
01:09:57,180 --> 01:09:55,780
clues the crews are out there it's just

1397
01:09:59,669 --> 01:09:57,190
do you want to keep digging throw this

1398
01:10:02,339 --> 01:09:59,679
through the clues as they keep throwing

1399
01:10:03,839 --> 01:10:02,349
crap on top of it each one of them as

1400
01:10:06,209 --> 01:10:03,849
soon as you keep going one place you're

1401
01:10:08,129 --> 01:10:06,219
taken to another place your diverted to

1402
01:10:10,709 --> 01:10:08,139
another place there's a goose chase this

1403
01:10:13,740 --> 01:10:10,719
place in that direction that gets very

1404
01:10:16,140 --> 01:10:13,750
confusing and can like what happened to

1405
01:10:18,510 --> 01:10:16,150
bed let's throw you into a bad place

1406
01:10:20,399 --> 01:10:18,520
mentally and I just I knew that I

1407
01:10:22,260 --> 01:10:20,409
couldn't go there I didn't want to go

1408
01:10:23,970 --> 01:10:22,270
there I I don't have but I don't know

1409
01:10:26,700 --> 01:10:23,980
how much time I have left in this life

1410
01:10:28,830 --> 01:10:26,710
but for what I have left I want to be

1411
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:28,840
happy and joyful and feel friendly

1412
01:10:33,899 --> 01:10:31,210
toward most beings as much as I can

1413
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:33,909
that's the way I want to live and that I

1414
01:10:42,510 --> 01:10:35,770
knew the UFO place is not the place to

1415
01:10:46,140 --> 01:10:42,520
stab that state of mind well yeah maybe

1416
01:10:49,790 --> 01:10:46,150
not then but maybe now how would you

1417
01:10:52,109 --> 01:10:49,800
think today that that would happen that

1418
01:10:55,350 --> 01:10:52,119
working in the UFO field would bring

1419
01:10:57,899 --> 01:10:55,360
about the kind of yes or are having a

1420
01:11:02,129 --> 01:10:57,909
sub sort of open disclosure that

1421
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:02,139
everybody could handle well I mean you

1422
01:11:06,450 --> 01:11:04,210
know I you know I don't know I don't

1423
01:11:08,700 --> 01:11:06,460
know about that is closing but alright

1424
01:11:13,589 --> 01:11:08,710
you're like mmm it I think that people

1425
01:11:17,689 --> 01:11:13,599
are more open generally to the ideas you

1426
01:11:24,089 --> 01:11:20,520
extraterrestrials visitors from other

1427
01:11:26,819 --> 01:11:24,099
planets but you know there could also be

1428
01:11:28,859 --> 01:11:26,829
you know this interdimensional aspect

1429
01:11:31,790 --> 01:11:28,869
that you're talking about and you know

1430
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:31,800
you tackled some of that some of those

1431
01:11:38,010 --> 01:11:36,130
more far out issues in things that you

1432
01:11:40,979 --> 01:11:38,020
did like your series with Terence

1433
01:11:45,300 --> 01:11:40,989
Mckenna that you did in the magazine

1434
01:11:47,819 --> 01:11:45,310
which was a very brave step because it

1435
01:11:51,990 --> 01:11:47,829
was really sort of outside the realm of

1436
01:11:55,910 --> 01:11:52,000
ufology as it was or as it existed at

1437
01:11:58,770 --> 01:11:55,920
the time and it was pretty heady stuff

1438
01:12:00,180 --> 01:11:58,780
petty stuff for those as a doc they

1439
01:12:01,410 --> 01:12:00,190
don't have the experience of

1440
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:01,420
psychedelics okay

1441
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:05,050
and that that of course is another area

1442
01:12:10,650 --> 01:12:08,170
fraught with controversy and dispersed

1443
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:10,660
with a lot of misinformation but to tell

1444
01:12:15,780 --> 01:12:12,850
you the truth it's glad you brought it

1445
01:12:18,930 --> 01:12:15,790
up because that aspect of coverage that

1446
01:12:21,419 --> 01:12:18,940
I did I was I felt more comfortable with

1447
01:12:23,729 --> 01:12:21,429
that than anything else because the

1448
01:12:25,830 --> 01:12:23,739
things that Terence Mckenna so so

1449
01:12:29,130 --> 01:12:25,840
articulately described about his

1450
01:12:30,630 --> 01:12:29,140
philosophic experiences coordinator was

1451
01:12:34,110 --> 01:12:30,640
what I experienced when I took

1452
01:12:38,490 --> 01:12:34,120
psychedelics to such a degree that I can

1453
01:12:40,709 --> 01:12:38,500
see the connection between the part of

1454
01:12:44,070 --> 01:12:40,719
at least part of the UFO phenomenon was

1455
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:44,080
with bide expanding substances that

1456
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:48,370
could actually create visions of things

1457
01:12:53,700 --> 01:12:50,890
that other people can't see in other

1458
01:12:55,500 --> 01:12:53,710
words hallucinations and when you're in

1459
01:12:57,240 --> 01:12:55,510
that stasis so if you're just

1460
01:13:00,240 --> 01:12:57,250
hallucinating is it something that

1461
01:13:03,450 --> 01:13:00,250
you've manufactured in your mind or are

1462
01:13:06,959 --> 01:13:03,460
you is it really opening up is it really

1463
01:13:09,990 --> 01:13:06,969
expanding your minds to allow you to see

1464
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:10,000
things that are there that you couldn't

1465
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:12,850
see just under normal circumstances I

1466
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:15,850
believe the latter because some of the

1467
01:13:20,510 --> 01:13:17,530
things that have been described by

1468
01:13:24,630 --> 01:13:20,520
different people taking similar

1469
01:13:27,510 --> 01:13:24,640
psychedelic substances have been the

1470
01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:27,520
same or similar to such an extent that

1471
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:30,400
either our brains are connected to

1472
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:33,370
something otherworldly that we are able

1473
01:13:37,919 --> 01:13:35,650
to see through the changes in chemistry

1474
01:13:41,340 --> 01:13:37,929
that happened with those drugs or

1475
01:13:44,970 --> 01:13:41,350
substances or we are but we are able to

1476
01:13:48,150 --> 01:13:44,980
each create from those substances the

1477
01:13:51,209 --> 01:13:48,160
ability to go out into another dimension

1478
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:51,219
and see what's out there I believe I

1479
01:13:57,360 --> 01:13:55,090
believe that it is a valid absolutely a

1480
01:13:59,580 --> 01:13:57,370
valid area of experimentation that

1481
01:14:02,880 --> 01:13:59,590
should be allowed to take place but

1482
01:14:07,169 --> 01:14:02,890
again you have the overshadowing powers

1483
01:14:08,850 --> 01:14:07,179
that be that do not want they really I

1484
01:14:12,090 --> 01:14:08,860
believe there's a negative element in on

1485
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:12,100
this planet that does not want us to be

1486
01:14:18,300 --> 01:14:15,370
completely free beings in other words to

1487
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:18,310
free and open access to what our minds

1488
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:20,650
are capable of and psychedelics are a

1489
01:14:26,940 --> 01:14:23,010
door now they may not be the best door i

1490
01:14:28,830 --> 01:14:26,950
would say probably lack of any drug or

1491
01:14:32,190 --> 01:14:28,840
mind-altering substance but going

1492
01:14:35,730 --> 01:14:32,200
through practice spiritual practices is

1493
01:14:37,980 --> 01:14:35,740
meditation yes meditation spiritual

1494
01:14:40,230 --> 01:14:37,990
exercises a concentration on what your

1495
01:14:43,140 --> 01:14:40,240
vision of God is that sort of thing but

1496
01:14:47,820 --> 01:14:43,150
it's another Avenue and for me when I

1497
01:14:50,610 --> 01:14:47,830
took LSD at age 18 and 19 it opened me

1498
01:14:52,770 --> 01:14:50,620
up to something that I had never thought

1499
01:14:55,140 --> 01:14:52,780
I would ever ever have any kind of

1500
01:14:59,250 --> 01:14:55,150
interest or attraction to and that is

1501
01:15:02,490 --> 01:14:59,260
other dimensions the the connection of

1502
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:02,500
every single element and animal in the

1503
01:15:07,980 --> 01:15:05,410
universe okay the connection we are so

1504
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:07,990
connected and yet we feel so separate

1505
01:15:13,530 --> 01:15:11,170
what's wrong with experimenting under

1506
01:15:15,630 --> 01:15:13,540
you know limited circumstances with a

1507
01:15:18,780 --> 01:15:15,640
substance that can help us reach those

1508
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:18,790
parts of our nature it has to be within

1509
01:15:23,610 --> 01:15:21,730
limits of course it has to be because

1510
01:15:26,310 --> 01:15:23,620
it's dangerous at the same time it's

1511
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:26,320
like the sword you know which can can

1512
01:15:32,340 --> 01:15:28,930
cut away the crap or it can kill you you

1513
01:15:34,410 --> 01:15:32,350
know it's it's a double-edged sword but

1514
01:15:37,170 --> 01:15:34,420
but but our country at least at this

1515
01:15:40,170 --> 01:15:37,180
point in time the powers that be don't

1516
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:40,180
want it to go too far at all because

1517
01:15:46,770 --> 01:15:43,930
after all it's true our generation was

1518
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:46,780
openly able to have it and it destroyed

1519
01:15:50,790 --> 01:15:48,730
some lives people that weren't able to

1520
01:15:53,460 --> 01:15:50,800
see the limits of what they couldn't

1521
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:53,470
should do with those substances well I

1522
01:15:58,470 --> 01:15:54,970
think yeah I think that you have to be

1523
01:16:00,750 --> 01:15:58,480
really careful with which substances

1524
01:16:03,890 --> 01:16:00,760
like that because i think you know if

1525
01:16:06,390 --> 01:16:03,900
you are not in a strong place right

1526
01:16:08,190 --> 01:16:06,400
mentally I think it could like just

1527
01:16:10,250 --> 01:16:08,200
drive you right over the edge and I

1528
01:16:13,170 --> 01:16:10,260
think it has done that to hurt people

1529
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:13,180
totally and there's clinical boundaries

1530
01:16:17,610 --> 01:16:14,970
that would have to be set oh absolutely

1531
01:16:20,070 --> 01:16:17,620
grin and on some people should never

1532
01:16:21,660 --> 01:16:20,080
ever have anything like that ever that's

1533
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:21,670
right some people have more shouldn't

1534
01:16:26,460 --> 01:16:24,010
and others people whose minds maybe up

1535
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:26,470
to a point and knowing those limits how

1536
01:16:29,220 --> 01:16:27,850
do you discover on these things there is

1537
01:16:31,380 --> 01:16:29,230
really interesting

1538
01:16:33,570 --> 01:16:31,390
sort of like the UFO phenomenon and that

1539
01:16:35,460 --> 01:16:33,580
they're very much similar it's like how

1540
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:35,470
far can you go with it well I found my

1541
01:16:41,100 --> 01:16:38,530
limit and I'm sure that people that take

1542
01:16:43,500 --> 01:16:41,110
drugs some of them they find their limit

1543
01:16:45,810 --> 01:16:43,510
and they know when to stop you know it's

1544
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:45,820
all has to do with your inner nature and

1545
01:16:49,170 --> 01:16:47,290
what you're capable of holding at least

1546
01:16:51,300 --> 01:16:49,180
that's my opinion no I'm pretty

1547
01:16:54,030 --> 01:16:51,310
opinionated by the way people I do know

1548
01:16:58,140 --> 01:16:54,040
that you know back in those days too

1549
01:17:00,060 --> 01:16:58,150
there was a lot of uses by you know

1550
01:17:06,630 --> 01:17:00,070
members of the mental health community

1551
01:17:08,750 --> 01:17:06,640
oh yeah yeah LSD for you know certain

1552
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:08,760
treatment of people i knew a

1553
01:17:14,370 --> 01:17:11,890
psychiatrist who used LSD with her

1554
01:17:19,950 --> 01:17:14,380
patients and she you know thought it was

1555
01:17:22,350 --> 01:17:19,960
a wonderful tool you know and i guess in

1556
01:17:25,860 --> 01:17:22,360
those circumstances it probably was okay

1557
01:17:28,470 --> 01:17:25,870
because she was a medical doing doses

1558
01:17:30,260 --> 01:17:28,480
dosages what the person the sentence

1559
01:17:34,130 --> 01:17:30,270
setting remember when Tim Larry and

1560
01:17:37,530 --> 01:17:34,140
Richard Alpert who became Baba Ram Dass

1561
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:37,540
season so many psychedelics do have a

1562
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:39,730
spiritual overtone to they they

1563
01:17:47,670 --> 01:17:42,810
basically came out with the areas where

1564
01:17:49,410 --> 01:17:47,680
you know you can find opening opening

1565
01:17:51,690 --> 01:17:49,420
you open yourself and there's other

1566
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:51,700
places where you could also closed

1567
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:55,330
yourself off and only a psychological

1568
01:18:03,090 --> 01:17:57,010
professional to know what you know how

1569
01:18:04,860 --> 01:18:03,100
much and when to to present it they

1570
01:18:08,340 --> 01:18:04,870
could take and find new places inside

1571
01:18:11,729 --> 01:18:08,350
themselves you know yeah I kind of liken

1572
01:18:14,910 --> 01:18:11,739
it a bit to some of the native american

1573
01:18:19,910 --> 01:18:14,920
vision questing yeah it is again where

1574
01:18:22,140 --> 01:18:19,920
with like peyote natural substances and

1575
01:18:25,620 --> 01:18:22,150
which is considered a religious

1576
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:25,630
sacrament to certain Native Americans

1577
01:18:30,570 --> 01:18:27,970
yeah and I believe that they're allowed

1578
01:18:32,910 --> 01:18:30,580
to imbibe in it because it's part of

1579
01:18:36,810 --> 01:18:32,920
their religion but you know it's still

1580
01:18:39,950 --> 01:18:36,820
dicey and I guess the FDA and the drug

1581
01:18:43,050 --> 01:18:39,960
drug enforcement agency you have to

1582
01:18:46,860 --> 01:18:43,060
weigh each case as it comes along

1583
01:18:48,420 --> 01:18:46,870
you know and you know some people can

1584
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:48,430
handle this appearance McKenna was

1585
01:18:52,170 --> 01:18:49,930
fascinating and the reason I was

1586
01:18:55,500 --> 01:18:52,180
fascinated with him and besides the fact

1587
01:18:58,380 --> 01:18:55,510
that he had these very fascinating

1588
01:19:00,990 --> 01:18:58,390
descriptions of entities and UFOs that

1589
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:01,000
he would see while taking silicide was

1590
01:19:08,970 --> 01:19:04,410
the fact that he could take such large

1591
01:19:12,750 --> 01:19:08,980
doses can go so far into it and come out

1592
01:19:16,350 --> 01:19:12,760
of it and be utterly right on top of

1593
01:19:19,950 --> 01:19:16,360
things and articulate in in describing

1594
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:19,960
the power behind these these natural

1595
01:19:25,380 --> 01:19:22,690
psychedelics and I just he was when he

1596
01:19:27,540 --> 01:19:25,390
was a wreck on tour Irish of course he

1597
01:19:34,140 --> 01:19:27,550
could really tell a story and he really

1598
01:19:36,270 --> 01:19:34,150
knew how to weave a story into a kind of

1599
01:19:38,700 --> 01:19:36,280
grandiose picture that you could put in

1600
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:38,710
your mind and I think that's what makes

1601
01:19:46,950 --> 01:19:43,170
him such a wonderful shall we say

1602
01:19:49,620 --> 01:19:46,960
advocate i'm sure i could not like you

1603
01:19:51,390 --> 01:19:49,630
do did it was that a two-part series

1604
01:19:53,490 --> 01:19:51,400
that you did in the magazine it seems to

1605
01:19:56,550 --> 01:19:53,500
me like it was two issues back-to-back

1606
01:19:58,440 --> 01:19:56,560
is that oh yeah it was i believe it was

1607
01:20:00,270 --> 01:19:58,450
only the first one was the one that I

1608
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:00,280
had was actually the cover story and

1609
01:20:04,590 --> 01:20:02,770
then you know that was so exciting to me

1610
01:20:07,350 --> 01:20:04,600
when I did it believe it or not the only

1611
01:20:10,020 --> 01:20:07,360
book I ever wrote I have I called it a

1612
01:20:12,510 --> 01:20:10,030
book at do you remember that at all true

1613
01:20:15,480 --> 01:20:12,520
UFO it was a combination of the

1614
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:15,490
interviews I did with Terence plus some

1615
01:20:24,270 --> 01:20:20,370
of my own head spinning thoughts on

1616
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:24,280
psychedelics and UFOs and I found a copy

1617
01:20:29,460 --> 01:20:27,970
of it did it's just a share it must have

1618
01:20:31,980 --> 01:20:29,470
been when sherry was doing most of the

1619
01:20:35,790 --> 01:20:31,990
via typesetting and everything when I

1620
01:20:37,860 --> 01:20:35,800
when I wrote it she set up the pages for

1621
01:20:39,870 --> 01:20:37,870
me so I have it in on pages it's not

1622
01:20:42,060 --> 01:20:39,880
really a book and I'd put it between

1623
01:20:44,670 --> 01:20:42,070
covers and I may have sold a couple good

1624
01:20:46,380 --> 01:20:44,680
copy oh my gosh anybody's ever

1625
01:20:49,710 --> 01:20:46,390
interested in that I don't know if they

1626
01:20:51,750 --> 01:20:49,720
would be but alright i'll give it to you

1627
01:20:54,300 --> 01:20:51,760
i've got i've got two copies here i'll

1628
01:20:56,550 --> 01:20:54,310
never fantastic another book at it's

1629
01:20:59,450 --> 01:20:56,560
just a small thing it's just like some

1630
01:21:02,820 --> 01:20:59,460
more s a typewriting I did combined with

1631
01:21:05,190 --> 01:21:02,830
interview of with parents but I'm going

1632
01:21:09,090 --> 01:21:05,200
through UFO because he he did this great

1633
01:21:11,730 --> 01:21:09,100
book called true hallucinations and but

1634
01:21:14,810 --> 01:21:11,740
and that's exactly what I see UFOs is

1635
01:21:17,850 --> 01:21:14,820
being it's it's true but it has a

1636
01:21:20,340 --> 01:21:17,860
salutatory aspect it's a real phenomenon

1637
01:21:24,810 --> 01:21:20,350
but at the same time as it comes across

1638
01:21:28,290 --> 01:21:24,820
unreal and not solid and ephemeral and

1639
01:21:30,350 --> 01:21:28,300
it does trim you know and so there's so

1640
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:30,360
there's a different cross over there

1641
01:21:36,780 --> 01:21:34,930
yeah yeah now we're down to gosh it

1642
01:21:39,090 --> 01:21:36,790
looks like about seven and a half

1643
01:21:42,330 --> 01:21:39,100
minutes or maybe six and a half minutes

1644
01:21:45,630 --> 01:21:42,340
to go and maybe some of the other things

1645
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:45,640
that you tackled in the magazine like

1646
01:21:54,480 --> 01:21:51,370
the the ending of the well the so-called

1647
01:21:56,550 --> 01:21:54,490
ending of the military's remote viewing

1648
01:22:00,810 --> 01:21:56,560
program oh yeah I was thinking about

1649
01:22:02,940 --> 01:22:00,820
that operation Stargate you were you

1650
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:02,950
were you talk to Lynn McGonagle quite a

1651
01:22:08,130 --> 01:22:05,890
bit remember Lynn Buchanan yeah you can

1652
01:22:11,070 --> 01:22:08,140
and I'm sorry that's right I did talk

1653
01:22:14,070 --> 01:22:11,080
with Joel McMonagle Donald all right but

1654
01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:14,080
I not bear it not as much but I did

1655
01:22:19,050 --> 01:22:16,810
become friends with limbu cannon but I

1656
01:22:21,140 --> 01:22:19,060
remember you know at the time I didn't

1657
01:22:24,210 --> 01:22:21,150
know anything about that subject at all

1658
01:22:26,820 --> 01:22:24,220
estimating subject boy alrighty into

1659
01:22:28,500 --> 01:22:26,830
this yeah you'll get into me it's like I

1660
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:28,510
don't know how we can bumble around so

1661
01:22:33,060 --> 01:22:30,130
much with our military when they're

1662
01:22:36,990 --> 01:22:33,070
these capabilities seem to be you know

1663
01:22:39,510 --> 01:22:37,000
very usable and you in Donn and I had

1664
01:22:40,770 --> 01:22:39,520
dinner one night was Ingo Swann who

1665
01:22:43,860 --> 01:22:40,780
actually was the founder of the

1666
01:22:47,820 --> 01:22:43,870
protocols oh yeah yeah what a

1667
01:22:51,300 --> 01:22:47,830
fascinating guy and you want to read a

1668
01:22:54,930 --> 01:22:51,310
provocative book about possible UFO ET

1669
01:22:58,740 --> 01:22:54,940
intelligence or for him probable if not

1670
01:23:01,800 --> 01:22:58,750
actual penetration and hopefully that's

1671
01:23:04,710 --> 01:23:01,810
a book by ingo swann that you can find

1672
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:04,720
maybe old copies on amazon or something

1673
01:23:09,310 --> 01:23:06,970
i don't know but that is another he's

1674
01:23:11,650 --> 01:23:09,320
another one you're asking about certain

1675
01:23:14,530 --> 01:23:11,660
cases of researchers angle I have

1676
01:23:16,900 --> 01:23:14,540
tremendous respect for I actually he's

1677
01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:16,910
not with us anymore I think he's passed

1678
01:23:22,660 --> 01:23:18,650
away a couple how did he pass away also

1679
01:23:25,090 --> 01:23:22,670
oh my yes yes this is what happens when

1680
01:23:28,570 --> 01:23:25,100
you get to a certain age I'm in a young

1681
01:23:30,910 --> 01:23:28,580
man listen it's just life but no matter

1682
01:23:32,890 --> 01:23:30,920
how much it happens or how little it

1683
01:23:34,390 --> 01:23:32,900
just doesn't feel right that's why I'm

1684
01:23:36,730 --> 01:23:34,400
very sure that there's something beyond

1685
01:23:43,770 --> 01:23:36,740
this life yeah it looks like he passed

1686
01:23:53,230 --> 01:23:48,400
actually first 2015 that's why I got to

1687
01:23:57,730 --> 01:23:53,240
actually he died 31 January 2013 so

1688
01:24:03,340 --> 01:23:57,740
Justin are two years ago yeah huh yeah a

1689
01:24:05,380 --> 01:24:03,350
very interesting guy he did develop or

1690
01:24:07,780 --> 01:24:05,390
at least helped her was part of

1691
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:07,790
developing those protocols that the

1692
01:24:14,260 --> 01:24:12,410
remote viewers used Wow and he was also

1693
01:24:16,480 --> 01:24:14,270
he also wrote an interesting book on

1694
01:24:18,790 --> 01:24:16,490
Marian apparitions I don't know if you

1695
01:24:21,490 --> 01:24:18,800
are did he I don't know about that you

1696
01:24:23,790 --> 01:24:21,500
know we actually had him on strange

1697
01:24:26,590 --> 01:24:23,800
universe when I was working on that show

1698
01:24:29,290 --> 01:24:26,600
talking about worldwide Marian

1699
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:29,300
apparitions that would have been

1700
01:24:31,990 --> 01:24:30,890
interesting method that didn't know he

1701
01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:32,000
was involved with that particular

1702
01:24:37,480 --> 01:24:34,370
subject I was kind of surprised you know

1703
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:37,490
about that but him his area you know

1704
01:24:44,530 --> 01:24:38,930
remote viewing is just another example

1705
01:24:47,590 --> 01:24:44,540
of where charlatans stepped in like um

1706
01:24:50,890 --> 01:24:47,600
yes you know who I'm talking about that

1707
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:50,900
I don't you're probably talking about ed

1708
01:24:56,970 --> 01:24:54,170
dames ed dames thank you very much you

1709
01:24:59,290 --> 01:24:56,980
know here was a guy that made these

1710
01:25:01,090 --> 01:24:59,300
outrageous predictions as he said were

1711
01:25:03,730 --> 01:25:01,100
based on his remote viewing and others

1712
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:03,740
remote viewing which made the whole area

1713
01:25:10,450 --> 01:25:07,010
again sound like just crock-pot stuff

1714
01:25:13,270 --> 01:25:10,460
you know and so that what does that do

1715
01:25:16,150 --> 01:25:13,280
that throws a monkey wrench into the

1716
01:25:19,540 --> 01:25:16,160
real research in in normal people's just

1717
01:25:22,660 --> 01:25:19,550
average visitors that looking into the

1718
01:25:23,130 --> 01:25:22,670
subject you know it's too bad but if I'm

1719
01:25:28,620 --> 01:25:23,140
not miss

1720
01:25:32,580 --> 01:25:28,630
taken it for the military ed dames was

1721
01:25:35,310 --> 01:25:32,590
never a viewer he was a monitor I

1722
01:25:38,010 --> 01:25:35,320
believe oh that isn't that what came out

1723
01:25:40,260 --> 01:25:38,020
later I believe so yeah I think you're

1724
01:25:43,440 --> 01:25:40,270
right now I should be I could be made oh

1725
01:25:45,030 --> 01:25:43,450
I'm almost absolutely sure that he was

1726
01:25:47,570 --> 01:25:45,040
not a remote viewer for the government

1727
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:47,580
but he worked in the remote viewing a

1728
01:25:57,120 --> 01:25:53,520
project but as as a monitor you know

1729
01:25:59,370 --> 01:25:57,130
making sure adults room price process

1730
01:26:02,280 --> 01:25:59,380
yeah I don't know if it was it was it in

1731
01:26:05,250 --> 01:26:02,290
a professional capacity was like yeah he

1732
01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:05,260
was young with the military and he was

1733
01:26:10,650 --> 01:26:08,410
like skip out water remember Frederick

1734
01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:10,660
skip out water right I do remember that

1735
01:26:14,970 --> 01:26:12,610
fact didn't skip come out with one of

1736
01:26:19,410 --> 01:26:14,980
the more interesting legitimate books

1737
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:19,420
about it you know he probably did he you

1738
01:26:25,170 --> 01:26:21,610
know continued working in the private

1739
01:26:27,810 --> 01:26:25,180
sector on remote viewing at the monroe

1740
01:26:29,430 --> 01:26:27,820
institute in it oh that's right right

1741
01:26:32,610 --> 01:26:29,440
far as I know he's still there in a

1742
01:26:35,460 --> 01:26:32,620
course Joel mcmonagle who was said to

1743
01:26:39,260 --> 01:26:35,470
have been the best remote viewer that

1744
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:39,270
the military had during those years

1745
01:26:47,730 --> 01:26:45,130
married nancy monroe who was the either

1746
01:26:51,180 --> 01:26:47,740
the i think he was she was like the

1747
01:26:56,370 --> 01:26:51,190
adopted daughter of Robert Monroe and I

1748
01:26:58,800 --> 01:26:56,380
molesta que tienen so in in so Joe and

1749
01:27:01,290 --> 01:26:58,810
Nancy lived nearby the Institute and

1750
01:27:03,690 --> 01:27:01,300
then continued to work there and in fact

1751
01:27:07,050 --> 01:27:03,700
I think that's where Joe was actually

1752
01:27:10,860 --> 01:27:07,060
working when he wrote came out with his

1753
01:27:12,810 --> 01:27:10,870
book mind Trek right right they were

1754
01:27:14,790 --> 01:27:12,820
doing I didn't read that book and I

1755
01:27:16,860 --> 01:27:14,800
don't know if we ever got it but I find

1756
01:27:19,590 --> 01:27:16,870
that that whole field was very much like

1757
01:27:22,050 --> 01:27:19,600
there was a trend of interested in the

1758
01:27:23,340 --> 01:27:22,060
UFO field do you remember that when this

1759
01:27:25,380 --> 01:27:23,350
happened it was like everybody was

1760
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:25,390
talking about remote viewing and it was

1761
01:27:29,940 --> 01:27:27,730
like all of a sudden it was out out into

1762
01:27:33,630 --> 01:27:29,950
the public of this top secret way of

1763
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:33,640
spying remote viewing spine oh goodness

1764
01:27:40,170 --> 01:27:36,970
guess what Vicki oh no we are

1765
01:27:42,470 --> 01:27:40,180
laughing I'm I'm just so ready for

1766
01:27:46,530 --> 01:27:42,480
another two hours I mean I really am

1767
01:27:49,890 --> 01:27:46,540
hahaha she tried staying up past your

1768
01:27:52,890 --> 01:27:49,900
bedtime yes I am patient no not quiet

1769
01:27:54,810 --> 01:27:52,900
it's about an hour from now so don't

1770
01:27:56,220 --> 01:27:54,820
make that don't let yes I don't want you

1771
01:27:58,920 --> 01:27:56,230
to fix it we have another hour to go

1772
01:28:01,260 --> 01:27:58,930
don't know don't ok it's just been a lot

1773
01:28:03,300 --> 01:28:01,270
of fun Renee I really enjoyed this I

1774
01:28:05,850 --> 01:28:03,310
want to thank you thanks so much and

1775
01:28:07,940 --> 01:28:05,860
thank Don again for joining us for the

1776
01:28:11,160 --> 01:28:07,950
last live edition of night vision radio